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justletmeparkffs
Hi all,

As the title states, flashed at 26mph in 20mph zone in a location I drive past at least twice a day for the past nearly two years. I know technically I was speeding but this was the first time and everyone drives between 20-30 mph on the same road.

I should point out this camera is quite wacky and tends to flash randomly from time to time, but this flashed specifically twice as I drove past it. This has been like this for years and now it suddenly flashes like it's kind of an entrapment. I drove past it again to see if it went off randomly and it didn't. Is it likely someone has eventually repaired it and made it very accurate and strict to the 20 zone?

Am I looking at a SAC or fine/3 points?

TIA
cp8759
From a legal standpoint, nothing you say helps at all: You knew the limit was 20 and you chose to ignore it, the fact that everyone else ignores it too is no defence. However for 26 in a 20 they will offer a SAC, they have a special one for 20 limits so it won't affect your eligibility for a "normal" SAC. This is of course if the camera is actually in use, have you receive any paperwork?
justletmeparkffs
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 20:24) *
From a legal standpoint, nothing you say helps at all: You knew the limit was 20 and you chose to ignore it, the fact that everyone else ignores it too is no defence. However for 26 in a 20 they will offer a SAC, they have a special one for 20 limits so it won't affect your eligibility for a "normal" SAC. This is of course if the camera is actually in use, have you receive any paperwork?


I was expressing the frustration after how many times I have driven past it at similar speeds and it never goes off. It was, however, flashing randomly the other day at cars that go past it at slower speeds. The road should be a 30 as that's how everyone drives and there are no any immediate dangers of pedestrians being in close proximity to moving traffic. Just baffling really.

It happened this evening so I guess I need to wait for a ticket or not.
cp8759
QUOTE (justletmeparkffs @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 21:18) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 20:24) *
From a legal standpoint, nothing you say helps at all: You knew the limit was 20 and you chose to ignore it, the fact that everyone else ignores it too is no defence. However for 26 in a 20 they will offer a SAC, they have a special one for 20 limits so it won't affect your eligibility for a "normal" SAC. This is of course if the camera is actually in use, have you receive any paperwork?


I was expressing the frustration after how many times I have driven past it at similar speeds and it never goes off. It was, however, flashing randomly the other day at cars that go past it at slower speeds. The road should be a 30 as that's how everyone drives and there are no any immediate dangers of pedestrians being in close proximity to moving traffic. Just baffling really.

It happened this evening so I guess I need to wait for a ticket or not.

If you disagree with the limit speak to your local councillor, it's nothing to do with the police. They don't make the rules, they just enforce them.
NewJudge
QUOTE (justletmeparkffs @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 19:41) *
I should point out this camera is quite wacky and tends to flash randomly from time to time, but this flashed specifically twice as I drove past it. This has been like this for years and now it suddenly flashes like it's kind of an entrapment.

Entrapment is a course of action (usually undertaken by law enforcement agencies) which encourages you to commit an offence which,without the entrapment, you would not have otherwise committed. You seem to be saying that as you had not previously been caught you believed you were justified in assuming you were safe from being caught in perpetuity (and good luck with that). But I don't believe this meets the definition of "entrapment".
cp8759
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 22:41) *
Entrapment is a course of action (usually undertaken by law enforcement agencies) which encourages you to commit an offence which,without the entrapment, you would not have otherwise committed. You seem to be saying that as you had not previously been caught you believed you were justified in assuming you were safe from being caught in perpetuity (and good luck with that). But I don't believe this meets the definition of "entrapment".

It does not. Further to this, under the criminal law there is no scope for an estoppel or legitimate expectation defence (the courts have explicitly ruled that estoppel cannot apply to crime). Imagine if a burglar put a defence of "I've burgled 50 houses and never got arrested before, so I thought it would be ok".
callumw
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 22:39) *
If you disagree with the limit speak to your local councillor, it's nothing to do with the police. They don't make the rules, they just enforce them.


Would that be the same for a private road with public access or would we have to appeal to the land owner directly?
southpaw82
QUOTE (callumw @ Tue, 7 May 2019 - 13:26) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 22:39) *
If you disagree with the limit speak to your local councillor, it's nothing to do with the police. They don't make the rules, they just enforce them.


Would that be the same for a private road with public access or would we have to appeal to the land owner directly?

A private landowner can’t set a lawful speed limit for which you can be prosecuted for exceeding. So no.
cp8759
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 7 May 2019 - 14:36) *
A private landowner can’t set a lawful speed limit for which you can be prosecuted for exceeding. So no.

A private land owner has other powers though, such as the ability to ban you from his land. Hence many of the "non-enforceable" limits on industrial sites etc carry a greater deterrent than the police: If you work for a company that pays you to drive to such and such a place, and ignoring that place's speed limit will see you banned from the site and possibly affect your employment, you're not likely to go wizzing around at top speed.

Some private companies go as far as using speed guns to enforce such limits (I know of one case where it helped a company defend a negligence claim, as they could show they took reasonable steps to ensure a safe working environment).

If you're talking about the limits at the Moto service stations on the motorways, different story, you can just ignore them providing you don't commit any actual driving offence.
Ocelot
Indeed, the supermarket limits are unenforceable since they are always below 20.
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