Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Northern Rail Penalty Parking Notice
FightBack Forums > Queries > Private Parking Tickets & Clamping
wilko8
A parking penalty notice has been received for being parked in a restricted area in a train station car park.

The car in question was parked outside of the gates to the car park against a kerb. There were no road markings and no signage that designated the area as restricted.

The car was not blocking the entrance to the car park or causing an obstruction.

There are two signs that show the car park t&c's between the road and where the car was parked. The first of these signs is not visible from the road as it has been turned around and the second is damaged to the extent that it is not possible to read.

The registered keeper of the vehicle has emailed to appeal the notice on the grounds that the signage is inadequate and the car wasn't parked in the car park. No personal details have been provided.

Northern Rail have responded twice requesting the name & address of the driver. They have not responded to the details of the appeal.

The latest email from Northern rail is as follow:

Penalty Parking Notices are issued under the railway byelaws and as such should they not be settled they proceed to the Magistrates Court who will require the driver details.

In addition to this we can only correspond with the driver concerning the appeal or we need permission from the driver to discuss the matter with another person on their behalf.



This email has not yet been responded to. I would be grateful for any advice on what step to take next.


I have included links to the pictures on google drive that have been sent to Northern Rail.

Not causing obstruction

Car parked outside gates

Sign not visible

Sign not readable

Parked outside gate

Thank you
Jlc
On previous stats (here) NR was one of the few companies that did actually issue Byelaw 14 prosecutions. I don't know what their current process is like.

They know a prosecution is far 'easier' if the driver identity is known but not having it may not dissuade them.
Glacier2
I am not convinced that the mags court can demand the driver details.
Gary Bloke
Who is the car park operator? Think you should be appealing to them rather than the TOC. Appeal as the registered keeper and do not reveal the identity of the driver. There is no legal requirement for you to do so.

If the vehicle was not in the car park then was it parked on the public highway? If so then the PPC and TOC have no jurisdiction. If you were not on railway assets the Byelaws do not apply.


wilko8
Hi - this has now been escalated by Northern Rail. I'd really appreciate some advice on what next step to take.

Mar 26 - I emailed stating I was the reg keeper and wanted to appeal, but wanted some time to formulate that appeal
Apr 3 - I sent details of appeal
Apr 24 - Northern replied not addressing details of appeal, but just asking for details of the driver
Apr 25 - I asked why they needed this information
Apr 30 - They responded stating 'Penalty Parking Notices are issued under the railway bylaws and as such should they not be settled they proceed to magistrates court who will require the driver details. In addition we can only correspond with the driver concerning the appeal or we need permission from the driver to discuss the matter with another person on their behalf'
May 15 - email rejecting appeal and requesting payment
May 15 - I emailed asking for the grounds of the appeal rejection and asking for details of independent appeals process
May 15 - email from northern stating they rejected the appeal because they can only correspond with the driver, the appeal cannot be assessed if we don't know we are corresponding with the right person and that the points of the appeal have not been reviewed. Their email then says 'To conclude, the matter does remain outstanding. Should the driver wish to appeal this matter we will look into that with them'
May 15 - I replied confirming that I had permission from the driver to discuss the matter and again requested details of their independent appeal process
May 17 - email from northern stating that permission granted from the driver needs to be in writing and should this be received they will address the appeal. Their email then says ' to conclude, we cannot assess the matter with yourself unless we are given express permission from the driver. No further correspondence will be sent to yourself regarding this matter unless we have permission to discuss the matter in depth
May 17 - I emailed stating I would ask the driver to write to them providing permission and again asked for details of their independent escalated appeals process
May 20 - email from Northern confirming address, ignoring the request for the appeals process
May 20 - I replied making the request for the independent appeals process again
May 20 - email from norther stating that if they dismiss an appeal the next step is magistrates
May 21 - permission sent in the post from the driver
May 24 - email from Northern claiming it has not been received
May 24-June 3 - various emails asking them to double check, confirm address etc.
June 5 - email from me stating that the driver has been called away on urgent business and will not be able to resend written permission for 3 weeks, but confirming that this will be done asap on their return
June 5 - standard response form northern stating that - if your e-mail is regarding the issue of a Penalty Parking Notice. The matter is currently on hold pending an investigation. We aim to be in touch with our decision within the next 21 days, however please be aware that this is not always possible depending on volume of disputes received. We can confirm that no further charges will be added during this time.

June 8 - letter received dated June 6 to the registered keeper.

Notice to owner
I am disappointed that there has been no payment in response to our correspondence sent on 15 May. As payment has not been received the total amount is now £90.

Please make payment within 14 days. Failure to make payment or contact this office within 14 days of this letter will result in LEGAL ACTION being instigated. Should we have to initiate this course of action we will make an application to recover our costs of £150.


The letter also states:

You must inform us immediately if you were not the driver of this vehicle at the time of the offence

If you were not the driver then you are required under railway bylaw to provide the name and address details of the person concerned.


Is this correct? In this case the reg keeper was not the driver.

Advice on next steps to take please?
Jlc
I’d ask them where this requirement to name the driver is? (Clue: it doesn’t exist)

...but wastes a bit more time
Dawn North
hello Wilko 8, Im wondering if you have any updates on this, - similar situation - served with a PPN for having being parked in an unmarked area in a railway car park, that wasn't, apparently, a car parking space, although nothing to say that it wasnt.

wilko8
Northern dropped it.

We sent an email querying the basis for the penalty, asking which bit of the byelaw they were relying upon, asking on what basis they had obtained the data from dvla.

They ignored all of our questions (that they obviously couldn’t answer) and sent an email saying that as the driver was not the registered keeper and as the registered keeper had not divulged the drivers info they couldn’t proceed.
Dawn North
Thanks Wilko, appreciate this info

This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.