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puregold
I am a little lost what to do next.

Saba who operate the carpark on behalf of Radett Train station, calling it Connect Cashless park.

My wife parked her car, phoned the number and paid the £3.95 for the day rate. Roll on a month later and we received a PCN with her car photo. I emailed them with a photo of the credit card receipt and the picture of the radlett parking sign and said we have paid. Everything was correct.

EXCEPT

They have now emailed back, saying its pending investigation as the car they have being paid for by that mobile number is different. It was our old car. I never registered as an account, i normally just phone the number to pay for parking, I rarely infact use the train and rarely park in stations.

So now I have somehow, or they system has somehow linked my old car with my mobile phone. I can see how this can happen. And yet I can prove I have paid for parking that day.

So if they reject my appeal where do I go? I have paid, the ANPR will show my current car entering and exiting and the old car has not entered, so would I be right to fight the argument that there is no loss on their part as I have paid for 1 car.

please can someone advise
thanks
Dan
stamfordman
This is a private parking case and I've asked for a move to the right section
Redivi
I assume this is a Penalty Notice issued under the Railway Byelaws, not a Parking Notice

What EXACTLY is the allegation - failure to pay for parking or failure to display the parking voucher ?

Failure to display is not a byelaw offence

The appeal is almost 100% certain to be rejected
SABA sub-contracts the appeals process to ZZPS, a debt collector that will then add its own charges

The tactic with Railway Byelaws Notices is to spin the process out until a prosecution becomes impossible

The next stage will normally be an appeal to ITAL, that deals with second stage appeals for SABA notices
You make this appeal as near as possible to the deadline

She then ignores the ITAL rejection and waits until letters start arriving from QDR Solicitors

She replies to QDR with awkward questions such as asking them to confirm that there is no debt and the PCN is nothing more than an offer to avoid prosecution

After a couple of rallies of email tennis, six months have passed and it's too late for any prosecution


puregold
QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 18:55) *
I assume this is a Penalty Notice issued under the Railway Byelaws, not a Parking Notice

What EXACTLY is the allegation - failure to pay for parking or failure to display the parking voucher ?

Failure to display is not a byelaw offence

The appeal is almost 100% certain to be rejected
SABA sub-contracts the appeals process to ZZPS, a debt collector that will then add its own charges

The tactic with Railway Byelaws Notices is to spin the process out until a prosecution becomes impossible

The next stage will normally be an appeal to ITAL, that deals with second stage appeals for SABA notices
You make this appeal as near as possible to the deadline

She then ignores the ITAL rejection and waits until letters start arriving from QDR Solicitors

She replies to QDR with awkward questions such as asking them to confirm that there is no debt and the PCN is nothing more than an offer to avoid prosecution

After a couple of rallies of email tennis, six months have passed and it's too late for any prosecution


The ticket was paid by phone, no display necessary.
the issue here is that when she paid by phone her old car was somehow registered to the mobile number and she didn't realise the number plate as she was rushing for the train. she paid and we then had been issued a PCN for her current car which was recognised by ANPR as unpaid.

So we have indeed paid for a day ticket, just not for the right car, so there is no financial loss, just an error on which car it was applied to.

Surely they can't reject that? oh as I type it i realise I live in a world where people are not reasonable anymore.

I guess I need some legal angle to force the cancellation, surely they realise a judge at court will throw this out?
ostell
So THEIR systems made the mistake in allocating the ticket to the wrong car. Why should the keeper be liable for this?
dramaqueen
QUOTE (puregold @ Wed, 17 Apr 2019 - 09:43) *
I guess I need some legal angle to force the cancellation, surely they realise a judge at court will throw this out?


It won't get anywhere near a judge. These fake penalties are not enforceable in law - only the Magistrates' Court can impose a penalty for breach of the Byelaws - so Saba/Indigo have nothing to sue you for.

I guess your Notice to Owner is similar to this one (which Bigden136 attached to his thread): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hMB-lrd6Fd...BLEw8yGEC9/view
It all looks pretty official, and coming as it does from the agents of a major train operating company few people would realise it is cocking a massive snook at the law. eg:-

1. "an offence has been committed"; "having identified that an offence has occurred...." Really? So when was the trial?
2. "The above penalty in now due.......". Really? So when was the trial?
3. "....plus any additional costs which may be incurred in its recovery". They've made this up. The "penalty" itself is not a recoverable debt; nor are any costs incurred in its recovery.
4. "In the event that this remains unpaid, then our Client may pursue you through the Magistrates Court by way of a private criminal prosecution." Very nasty threat but there's a problem: the letter is addressed to the registered keeper. There is nothing the registered keeper per se can be prosecuted for. (They know, now, who was driving but they didn't know that at the time they sent this letter.)

Don't forget, anyone accused of a criminal offence is entitled to a fair trial, and is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Indigo are riding roughshod over these fundamental principals of our criminal justice system. You can see the sort of people you are dealing with. It's very unlikely you will persuade them to pack it in, and there's nothing you can do to force a cancellation. (ITAL, the second tier appeal service, were appointed by Indigo themselves; their appeals are not decided in accordance with the law of England and Wales.)

It'll be exactly as Redivi says: the letters will get more and more aggressive, you hold firm, and after 6 months they have to give up.


Redivi
The ticket was paid by phone, no display necessary.

That's irrelevant to the question I asked
puregold
QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 17 Apr 2019 - 09:53) *
So THEIR systems made the mistake in allocating the ticket to the wrong car. Why should the keeper be liable for this?


Bingo and now have formally had their rejection letter.

So I have proof of payment, which remains in their system as unallocated and they want o penalise me for. Or paying when I clearly have?
Isn’t this harassment?
Why don’t I just write to the transport secretary Grayling and complain to him?
Redivi
Third time of asking:

What EXACTLY is the allegation - failure to pay for parking or failure to display the parking voucher ?

puregold
QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 19:52) *
Third time of asking:

What EXACTLY is the allegation - failure to pay for parking or failure to display the parking voucher ?


Sorry thought I said, they are saying “ failing to obtain a valid ticket or voucher
Redivi
Thanks

They've changed it

Until recently they always issued them for Failure to Display
freddy1
QUOTE (puregold @ Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 19:56) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 19:52) *
Third time of asking:

What EXACTLY is the allegation - failure to pay for parking or failure to display the parking voucher ?


Sorry thought I said, they are saying “ failing to obtain a valid ticket or voucher



but you did by a valid ticket or voucher , just that it was for your old car
puregold
QUOTE (freddy1 @ Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 20:50) *
QUOTE (puregold @ Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 19:56) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 19:52) *
Third time of asking:

What EXACTLY is the allegation - failure to pay for parking or failure to display the parking voucher ?


Sorry thought I said, they are saying “ failing to obtain a valid ticket or voucher



but you did by a valid ticket or voucher , just that it was for your old car


Ues we bought a ticket, although we never registered for their system, we must of used their system at time point previously but have never been registered knowingly. Its like they register you automatically when you pay for parking against your phone number. Is this a GDPR issue I wonder?
The Rookie
It would only be a GDPR issue if you didn't click for consent at some time, which you almost certainly did (the terms and conditions everyone agrees to and no-one reads!)

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