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JPepi
Summary of events as listed in letter saying i have been charged with traffic offences:

29/09/18 Camera recorded vehicle doing 80 in 70 zone.

02/09/18 NIP sent to BMW Contract hire.

10/10/18 BMW respond with keeper address (me)

12/10/18 NIP Sent to keeper address

19/11/18 No Response so another NIP auto generated.

25/01/19 It was noticed that NIP was issued to incorrect postcode.

28/01/19 NIP sent to correct postcode.

06/03/19 Reminder was sent out due to no response.


On posting date of 25/03/19 two charges have been sent.

1. Fail to give info on id of driver when required 27/02/19
2. Speeding 29/09/19.


Where do i go from here? Seems that i did not get the NIP withing 14 days and it is now 6 months past the alleged speeding offence?

Plead not guilty online?

Thanks!

The Rookie
QUOTE (JPepi @ Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 16:14) *
29/09/18 Camera recorded vehicle doing 80 in 70 zone.

02/09/18 NIP sent to BMW Contract hire.

Clearly their crystal ball was in top form!

It's only the NIP sent to the registered keeper (BMW contract hire presumably) that has to be in time. As each recipient has 28 days to reply clearly subsequent letters cannot be held to a 14 day time limit.

Why didn't you respond to the S172 requests sent to you?

Normal advice is to plead not guilty to BOTH.

At court do a deal with the prosecutor where you agree to plead guilty to the speeding if the (usually) more onerous S172 is dropped.

Why do you think it's time barred? 25/03 is within 6 months of 29/09.
progbloke
Only the first NIP has to be within 14 days and that would have been the one to BMW Contract hire.

The six-month limit only applies to the laying of information (in England and Wales) and judging from the dates given, this has been complied with. Why they always seem to leave it until the last minute is another matter and one that I (for one) don't entirely agree with.

Why was there no response to the NIPs you were sent?

EDIT - fat fingers and annoying phone call ohmy.gif(
JPepi
The NIP was not returned as it was 121 days after the alleged offence - it would be genuinely hard to work out who was actually driving.

Re 6 months, I understood this as prosecution. So far I have a notice saying i am charged with a traffic offence, asking how I plead. No trial date has been set as of yet, and will surely be after 6 months of the offence.

Thanks!



southpaw82
The court date doesn’t have to be within 6 months of the offence.
JPepi
Well I have pled not guilty. I hope i can appeal to the magistrates decency. It is not reasonable to expect to identify the driver over 4 months since the alleged incident. The Police have already admitted they made an error.
Jlc
If you provided no response at all then you should strongly consider the ‘plea bargain’ if you believe you were most likely driving.

Sending no response to the request is going to be a difficult defence. What did you do to identify the driver upon receiving the request? The ‘error’ doesn’t appear to provide you a defence with no response.
JPepi
I did nothing to identify, as i thought that it needed to be sent within 14 days of the Police identifying the keeper and i got it 121 days after that date!

If i get trial date it looks like i will need to get a solictior involved as I am looking at 4 points for the speeding and 6 for the 172 after having a clean license for over 15 years!
Jlc
QUOTE (JPepi @ Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 18:36) *
I did nothing to identify, as i thought that it needed to be sent within 14 days of the Police identifying the keeper and i got it 121 days after that date!

Whoops.

QUOTE (JPepi @ Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 18:36) *
If i get trial date it looks like i will need to get a solictior involved as I am looking at 4 points for the speeding and 6 for the 172 after having a clean license for over 15 years!

...but all is not lost.

They cannot convict the speeding offence unless you plead guilty to it (they have no evidence to present as to the driver).

Therefore, you can 'plea bargain' - simply that you will offer to plead guilty to the speeding if they drop the more serious offence. You don't need a solicitor for this.

p.s. 80 in a 70 is 'only' 3 points. However, you will have to pay income-related fine (around 33% of weekly relevant earnings), costs of £85 and surcharge of 10% of the fine (min £30).

Alternatively, you can 'fight' the s172 charge - but the above I don't think it's a good idea...
The Rookie
Unfortunately you’re a good example of how a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

The NIP to the registered keeper was served in time (from what you say and despite the date error), the requirement to name the driver was perfectly valid and not attempting to determine the driver ID or replying at all makes you about as guilty is that offence as you can get. Proceedings have to be started in six months, not getting you to court.
JPepi
QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 19:27) *
QUOTE (JPepi @ Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 18:36) *
I did nothing to identify, as i thought that it needed to be sent within 14 days of the Police identifying the keeper and i got it 121 days after that date!

Whoops.

QUOTE (JPepi @ Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 18:36) *
If i get trial date it looks like i will need to get a solictior involved as I am looking at 4 points for the speeding and 6 for the 172 after having a clean license for over 15 years!

...but all is not lost.

They cannot convict the speeding offence unless you plead guilty to it (they have no evidence to present as to the driver).

Therefore, you can 'plea bargain' - simply that you will offer to plead guilty to the speeding if they drop the more serious offence. You don't need a solicitor for this.

p.s. 80 in a 70 is 'only' 3 points. However, you will have to pay income-related fine (around 33% of weekly relevant earnings), costs of £85 and surcharge of 10% of the fine (min £30).

Alternatively, you can 'fight' the s172 charge - but the above I don't think it's a good idea...




Thank you. What is the plea bargain process? I have pled not guilty to both charges.

Thanks
Jlc
Ok, pleading not guilty is the right start.

On the day of the hearing, turn up early and try and speak to the prosecutor. Simply offer that you'll plead guilty to the speeding offence if they drop the more serious charge - they rarely object. (There are many successful cases, e.g. here)

There's no official 'plea bargain' process but many courts seem to process these situations as such.

Remember, this can only be done if were driving. Alternatively, you can fight the FtF but that may well be a costly exercise. (A bill of around £1k+, 6 points and nasty MS90 endorsement code)
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