Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Helping my disabled neighbour with PCN. More PCN to come?
FightBack Forums > Queries > Private Parking Tickets & Clamping
nootnoot
Hi,

I hope someone can help my 83 year-old disabled neighbour, he is very upset so I want to try and help him.

As the title suggests, he's received the notice (all images attached) as the Registered Keeper. However, more notices for the same car park (ANPR controlled) could come in the post if the driver has visited the same car park in the last few weeks. I looked into the car park this morning and it was council run but at some point it has been handed to Highview Parking. There are disabled bays that someone with a blue badge could use, which I am told was free when it was council run but no longer under the current operator. It would appear the change of the rules and charges have not been well communicated. The signage isn't very clear that blue badge holders must pay, albeit it does not say it's free either. Note, the charge for parking is £1 for under 1 hour.

The vehicle was parked:
Shopping centre car park. Once owned operated by the Council, but under Highview Parking now. Private land.

The first thing I received was:
A Charge Notice through the post

What was the alleged offence?:
"no evidence that that a sufficient parking payment was made for this vehicle to cover the full duration"

If you got a civil 'parking charge notice' or similar, have you told the company who issued it who was driving the vehicle?
No contact made so far

Questions:
1. Is the charge notice even valid? The flowchart in the sticky says the notice must be served within 14 days of the incident. Incident = 20/03/2019, letter received on 04/04/2019, making that 15 days.

2. Is the charge of £90 (reduced to £50 for payment) reasonable when the parking charge is £1 for this duration?

3. Are there any other grounds that someone can view from the given information?

4. What would one advise when more notices come through the post? I think it is ridiculous to receive so many charges notices for the same location in such a short period, so trying to plan if he as the Registered Keeper receives anymore

Anything else, let me know.

Thanks



ostell
I presume you made a mistake with the dates and reversed them. Yes the notice has to be delivered within 14 days so they cannot hold the keeper liable. I'm not on my usual computer so unable to copy and paste an appeal for out of time. I'm sure you'll be able to find it.

There are also so many other fails on that notice that even if they reject then a POPLA appeal will be successful.

Here's POFA for to to look at. Check what it required in paragraph 9, especially 9 (2).
nootnoot
Yes, the date was incorrect. I have updated.

From the link provided, 9 (4)(5)(6) appear to be relevant.

1. Is it 14 days including weekends or is it 14 working days?
2. 9 (6) states, "A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved..." Does this mean the onus is on I to show the letter arrived on the 15th day after the parking incident? Not sure how I would do this?

I went through the requirements in 9 (2) and from my layman interpretation, I thought the points were covered but please point out which are not.

Thanks

ostell
It's 14 calendar days. You've redacted the dates, makes it difficult.

Where is the invitation 9 (2) (e)

Where is the warning 9 (2) (f)

Where is the creditor identified 9 (2) (h)

Where is the period of parking 9 (2) (a). Moving in front of a camera cannot be, by definition, parking

Where is date of sending 9 (2) (i)

These MUST all be there

Remember that delivery is assumed 2 WORKING days after posting. Critical at weekends and bank holidays.

If it is beyond 14 days then this:

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc


If not then:

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc


First class post with free certificate of posting from a post office

On line make sure that a screen copy is taken at every page and the appeal is from the keeper. Beware resetting drop down lists.



The Slithy Tove
QUOTE (nootnoot @ Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 14:48) *
it was council run but at some point it has been handed to Highview Parking

That could be relevant. If it was a council car park, and the land is owned by the council, they can't just hand it over to a private company. The signs say "private property", so who does own it? Worth asking the relevant council how this "transfer" happened. Also look up the relevant council's web sites and see if the land is/was subject to a Parking Places Order.
nootnoot
Thank you ostell. I have appealed based on it being delivered after 14 days.
I am sure it will be rejected, but I will likely then appeal through POPLA.

I will update when I hear back from them.
Glacier2
Highview are simple to beat if you stick to the Ostell letter and only use that.

nootnoot
No surprise, another notice in the post as my neighbor feared. I think one more will come making a total of 3. Just outrageous they are preying on the elderly and disabled. How many are just paying up! I do wonder if I should print out notices on placards and stick them up near the disabled bays, but wonder if I could fall foul of some law?

Anyways, this notice took 18 days (from the date of recorded parking to the letter being received in the post). I assume take the advice stands, and appeal with the same argument?
Glacier2
Yep, same appeal as before.
nootnoot
Just wanted to post a quick update, that my neighbour greeted me with smiles yesterday biggrin.gif . Both of his tickets were cancelled after a good few weeks of silence from Highview.

I wanted to thank this forum for the useful information available, and in particular my gratitude to ostel for the direct advice. You have made my neighbour very happy to know he doesn't have to handover a sum of money to devious agents like Highview.

Continue the good fight!
The Rookie
QUOTE (nootnoot @ Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 21:15) *
Just outrageous they are preying on the elderly and disabled.

Just to address this, how on earth do Highview know he is either (or both)? Simply put, they don't.

PPC's don't just pray on the elderly and disabled, they prey on anyone they can!
HappyHarry
Your neighbour is lucky to have you looking out for him, Nootnoot.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.