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enimga1
Hi

I have just been contacted by the highway road insurance to cover the damage I had made on a road border when I had a bike accident. I was not drink or driving fast.

I had approached traffic light at this roundabout, I filtered safely to the front, the traffic was showing red. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4536932,0.2...6384!8i8192

Note Unlike the view you see on the link the day was sunny and the sunlight was facing my direction, but it wasn't at all blinding, so I could see ahead of me.

When the traffic went green I checked the light traffic light just after the yellow box also as I was intending to proceed ahead and that one also green, which was quite prominent. On proceeding ahead I then noticed the road barrier level crossing was actually down, to which point it was too late for me to move out of the way to avoid collision on my motorbike.

I was wearing my helmet camera at the time which captured the whole incident, I have attached link to the still images, but I am not sure where I can put the video share the whole incident. The police where called they took statement and they said I won't be charged with any driving offence.


Now I am just worried as my insurance told me that it's often difficult for government agency to admit fault so chances are that I could be liable for the damages to the barrier.

Outside of that, I genuinely believe that visibility is very dangerous especially for motorcyclist and I was lucky to escape with my life, even though I suffer leg injury that needed surgery straight away.

I was just wondering from the experts here what they make of it and what my chances are of beating this claim.

Note I saw the barrier light red briefly, but it wasn't flashing so my main attention switched back to the traffic lights and also making sure the road around me is clear to proceed.

https://ibb.co/z8cn9Sk


https://ibb.co/mqSx3m8


https://ibb.co/dWZmp06 - this was view point

Here is a link to the dashcam footage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZmWtzxihmw...eature=youtu.be
PASTMYBEST
put the dashcam footage on youtube and post the link. TBH I cant see much joy for you unless you can show the barrier hit you.
enimga1
A barrier hitting me argument, is pretty much means I have zero to no chance.
Irksome
Gotta say that looks pretty dangerous and I can see just how (as a fellow biker) such an accident could happen.

My issue is that the stop signals that appear to be related to the barrier are situated behind the barrier itself - there doesn't appear to be a stop line on the road either? However there does appear to be a changeable traffic sign on the left hand traffic island where you were stationary with amber warning lights.

The claim from (is it Highways England or a body that runs the Dartford Crossing) the authority will presumably be made against your insurance company, and they will settle it as I can't see them taking it on as a fight, but it shouldn't affect you any more than the accident already has?

Its not a criminal matter however ... so I suspect this is off to another part of the forum.


enimga1
QUOTE (Irksome @ Tue, 2 Apr 2019 - 16:59) *
Gotta say that looks pretty dangerous and I can see just how (as a fellow biker) such an accident could happen.

My issue is that the stop signals that appear to be related to the barrier are situated behind the barrier itself - there doesn't appear to be a stop line on the road either? However there does appear to be a changeable traffic sign on the left hand traffic island where you were stationary with amber warning lights.

The claim from (is it Highways England or a body that runs the Dartford Crossing) the authority will presumably be made against your insurance company, and they will settle it as I can't see them taking it on as a fight, but it shouldn't affect you any more than the accident already has?

Its not a criminal matter however ... so I suspect this is off to another part of the forum.


I was contacted by my insurance and the guy said it's Highways but I am not sure the full details. I am just shocked that it will be a potential claim against me, even though it can be clearly seen that the road sign is dangerous because from motorbike perspective (i.e. I can't say if the view is any worse or better from car sitting position), and why is the traffic light for to my left after the box junction next to the barrier changing to green, when the barrier was down, I mean either disable it completely when the barrier are down so that driver can focus attention to the barrier or maybe subtle flashing on the barrier itself, because it was not at all visible until it was too late to make emergency manoeuvre.
Irksome
Well I polled one of my biker Facebook groups and we agree it’s a dangerous junction / situation for a PWT ... but I don’t see how tgat helps ...
Steve_999
Was this



what you (as opposed to just your camera) actually saw? i.e. two green traffic signals and six red ones?


I can't say that the video really helps your case if so.


nigelbb
Surely the visibility was poor because you were riding straight into the low winter sun & were so dazzled that you didn't se the barrier until you hit it?
DancingDad
Standard practice for any highway authority to claim against a driver who has damaged a road ornament.
Sorry to say it but it is always taken as the driver's fault when they hit a static object.
Driver is very much on the back foot to show otherwise.
I cannot see your dashcam helping at all, it shows a potentially dazzled driver carrying on regardless or, if not dazzled, ignoring what seems to be a plethora of red lights.
stamfordman
I think it's a poor layout - you don't expect red lights at the start of an exit from a roundabout and that barrier is barely visible. The authority should close off the exit better than that and clearly mark it with keep left signage.
DancingDad
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 3 Apr 2019 - 10:26) *
I think it's a poor layout - you don't expect red lights at the start of an exit from a roundabout and that barrier is barely visible. The authority should close off the exit better than that and clearly mark it with keep left signage.



Would not say it is a brilliant layout by any means but it is common where I live for roundabouts to have crossings (light controlled or Zebra) on exits.
Pee poor and nothing solid to hit (except pedestrians) if you miss the lights but not unexpected or unusual by any means.
Just one example. Maybe not as close but considering the number of lights on islands (another pee poor idea IMO) …..
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.5132491,-...3312!8i6656
stamfordman
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 3 Apr 2019 - 13:09) *
Just one example. Maybe not as close but considering the number of lights on islands (another pee poor idea IMO) …..
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.5132491,-...3312!8i6656


Nothing like it though - the lights are on the edge of the roundabout. If you didn't see the barrier but did see the lights you'd stop in the roundabout.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4537175,0.2...3312!8i6656

De facto this is dangerous because the OP hit it. I expect he's not the only one. And it's typical that authorities don't test situations at all times of day when sun is a factor.

IMO signage like this is needed:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4537175,0.2...3312!8i6656
DancingDad
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 3 Apr 2019 - 13:31) *
...Nothing like it though - the lights are on the edge of the roundabout. If you didn't see the barrier but did see the lights you'd stop in the roundabout.
…….



So?
Step back onto the island I linked to, lights on the island, people have to stop on the roundabout all the time.
Traffic backs up from those crossing lights onto the island.
I'll accept that barrier could have signs affixed to make it more visible but end of the day, if a driver takes off and hits a static object that is visible (in the dashcam footage) summat like 30 yards ahead of them, you have to question what the driver was looking at ?
Especially when that object is backed up with multiple Red Lights.
cp8759
If it's reasonably foreseeable that bikers will proceed across the junction and hit the barrier, the placement of the barrier could be negligent. It would be interesting if a biker who is entitled to treat red light as give way lines (authorised blood couriers for example) hit the barrier. However I don't see the insurance company wanting to incur the legal costs of arguing the point.
notmeatloaf
There are loads of pedestrian crossings with just two signals on roundabout arms. If you missed four lights and a barrier, then it doesn't bode well.

When I used to ride bikes I would have been slower off the mark - half blinded, you need more time to assess the road ahead. Accelerating hard into something you can only half see has foreseeable problems.
enimga1
Thanks for the feedback.

From recollection this was my thought process, normally when I ride motorbike before and after I leave a roundabout or take off from stand still, I normally do few split seconds eye glances to the left and right too check my surroundings and other vehicle behaviours, I do that quite often (the camera won't really catch it as my head doesn't not fully swivel).

On this occasion I do remember maybe few seconds after leaving the traffic, when I did my second check I quickly thought the cars behind me, aren't in the position I would have expected them to be in (i.e. to be fully off the line ) which kind of aroused my attention a little bit.

Few things I quickly checked in my as it was happening:
1.) Did I take off too fast? no,
2.) Did I jump the green light, to my right before taking off?, (obviously I had already passed it), I thought I am sure both light was green. I made few glances around, then I saw the traffic light after the yellowbox junction was green (which gave me some re-assurement that I didn't jump any light). At this point the red one where not prominent (maybe due to sun glare)
3.) So I thought so what is it?????

Then just after I that saw the red light, I thought stop now!!! immediately after I saw the barrier was down which was pretty much in line with the red traffic light so I had no time to decelerate and avoid.

All of that process in few seconds just wasn't enough to stop.

enimga1
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Wed, 3 Apr 2019 - 16:44) *
There are loads of pedestrian crossings with just two signals on roundabout arms. If you missed four lights and a barrier, then it doesn't bode well.

When I used to ride bikes I would have been slower off the mark - half blinded, you need more time to assess the road ahead. Accelerating hard into something you can only half see has foreseeable problems.


Thanks from my initial perspective I did not perceive the situation that I was half blinded, hence I wasn't extra slow off the mark.

1.) Looking straight ahead I could see the road.
2.) I did not see the barrier down not because the sun was in my eyes, but because the sun bouncing of the road camouflage the barrier (so the barrier been fully down was never in my thought process).
3.) I could see the traffic light to my right and to the left just a little further down as it was prominent, the red ones on the barrier did not get my full attention as been active, I would have been more alerted if they where flashing.
Fredd
I can see that the barrier itself may have been difficult to see because of reflections, but you also failed to see 6 red lights, in two rows, the first row before the barrier being at both high and low level. It's difficult to understand how you could not have realised that such a large part of your forward view was obscured by glare, leading you to plough on regardless.

IMO far more important than whether your insurance company should have to shell out some more money, which isn't likely to affect you anyway, is what you learn from this.
Foxy01
Can somebody explain the point of the barriers and the red lights at the exit of the roundabout? If I'm looking at google maps correctly both lanes are painted to go straight ahead (M25). So the signals turn green as in the OP's video, you then enter a yellow box junction to stop immediately at a set of barriers and a red light?
peodude
Whilst I agree it is a poor design, and the barrier could be set further back from the yellow box junction, I have to agree with the others that there are traffic lights there. If we take the barrier out of the equation, and say you was caught by a red light camera, then I don't think there would be any arguments.
Starworshipper12
Simple case of rider/driver error surely. Recently witnessed a car driver who, briefly blinded by the afternoon sun, mounted a traffic island and ruptured his tyre. Matters are obviously worse for bikers, but you can’t sue the sun, unless it’s the tabloid.
notmeatloaf
If the sun is bouncing off the road and blinding you, you are still being blinded by the sun.

You may not think your speed was too fast - you said you realized before hitting the barrier - so by definition you were going too quickly to stop in the distance you could see was clear - and not by a small margin.

After an accident you should reflect back and see how you could improve your riding. You know there are stupid road layouts, and ones that are especially poor for bikes. If your conclusion is that the accident was 100% due to the road layout and there was nothing you could have done differently, then it shows a lack of self awareness.
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