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crumpets1
I just got a speeding ticket from my holiday last August in France 25/8/18 On the Violation notice thats dated 27/2/19.

I never got pulled over , so it must be a camera. Can they force me to pay this?

Thanks in advance
cp8759
QUOTE (crumpets1 @ Sun, 10 Mar 2019 - 20:14) *
I just got a speeding ticket from my holiday last August in France 25/8/18 On the Violation notice thats dated 27/2/19.

I never got pulled over , so it must be a camera. Can they force me to pay this?

Thanks in advance

Hire car or your own car?
crumpets1
My own car that was sold early Jan
cp8759
QUOTE (crumpets1 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 03:03) *
My own car that was sold early Jan

Experience tells us that if you ignore and do nothing, other than sending scary letters it's unlikely anything will happen. There is in theory a mechanism to collect the fine via your local magistrates' court, but it is seldom used (and this mechanism is due to be abolished in 18 day anyway).
baroudeur
QUOTE (crumpets1 @ Sun, 10 Mar 2019 - 20:14) *
I just got a speeding ticket from my holiday last August in France 25/8/18 On the Violation notice thats dated 27/2/19.

I never got pulled over , so it must be a camera. Can they force me to pay this?

Thanks in advance



The French are clamping down speeding and, in particular, on foreign drivers who commit motoring offences. They are operating several hundred unmarked cars with cameras that do not stop the offender but record it as a fixed camera would. The speeding ticket (Avis de Contravention) will show the exact location, date and time of the offence and the method of detection.

The vehicle and registered keeper details will be held on a ghost record at the French central processing centre. Failure to pay will result in increased penalties for which you will probably receive further letters and, eventually, a court decision confirming the imposition of the maximum penalty which becomes an outstanding debt if not paid.
baroudeur
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 08:44) *
QUOTE (crumpets1 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 03:03) *
My own car that was sold early Jan

Experience tells us that if you ignore and do nothing, other than sending scary letters it's unlikely anything will happen. There is in theory a mechanism to collect the fine via your local magistrates' court, but it is seldom used (and this mechanism is due to be abolished in 18 day anyway).


What evidence shows that the "machanism" is to be abolished in 18 days? If you are referring to Brexit nobody knows what will happen or how long it will take to review and revise legislation and most will remain in place for the immediate future.

There are a couple of International Debt Collection agencies who are chasing outstanding penalties on behalf of some foreign authorities but none appear to have attempted to pursue these through court action. France is not known to use these agencies.
nigelbb
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 11:40) *
QUOTE (crumpets1 @ Sun, 10 Mar 2019 - 20:14) *
I just got a speeding ticket from my holiday last August in France 25/8/18 On the Violation notice thats dated 27/2/19.

I never got pulled over , so it must be a camera. Can they force me to pay this?

Thanks in advance



The French are clamping down speeding and, in particular, on foreign drivers who commit motoring offences. They are operating several hundred unmarked cars with cameras that do not stop the offender but record it as a fixed camera would. The speeding ticket (Avis de Contravention) will show the exact location, date and time of the offence and the method of detection.

That must explain why when I was in France last September & again in January I saw almost no vehicles speeding whereas when I used to live on the Cote d'Azur speeding was apparently de rigeur. I put down the lack of speeding either to the more relaxed pace of life or more the law-abiding drivers in Brittany but it now seems more likely that there has been a nationwide crackdown on speeding drivers.
cp8759
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 11:59) *
What evidence shows that the "machanism" is to be abolished in 18 days? If you are referring to Brexit nobody knows what will happen or how long it will take to review and revise legislation and most will remain in place for the immediate future.

There are a couple of International Debt Collection agencies who are chasing outstanding penalties on behalf of some foreign authorities but none appear to have attempted to pursue these through court action. France is not known to use these agencies.

The mechanism operates by virtue of council framework decision 2005/214/JHA here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/...214&from=EN

Article 4 says "A decision, together with a certificate as provided for in this Article, may be transmitted to the competent authorities of a Member State...", the primacy of EU law means this will have been implemented in French law. Unless the legal position changes between now and then, from 30 April the French authorities would have no basis in French and EU law to transmit the decision & certificate to the UK authorities, as the UK would not be a member state. As the transmission of information would be outwith the provisions of EU law, it would also constitute a breach of GDPR (let's not forget the information is sensitive personal data so it requires the highest level of protection).

By the way debt agencies were never involved, for as long as the UK is a member state the mechanism is that the French authorities pass the information to the competent UK authorities (I believe ultimately the CPS in this case), who then pursue magistrates' courts proceedings. Private companies would have no standing, letters from private companies about foreign traffic matters can be ignored as they have no domestic recourse in the UK.
crumpets1
Many thanks for all the replies . I guess i will take the chance and ignore it, i have no plans to visit France again.
baroudeur
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 18:14) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 11:59) *
What evidence shows that the "machanism" is to be abolished in 18 days? If you are referring to Brexit nobody knows what will happen or how long it will take to review and revise legislation and most will remain in place for the immediate future.

There are a couple of International Debt Collection agencies who are chasing outstanding penalties on behalf of some foreign authorities but none appear to have attempted to pursue these through court action. France is not known to use these agencies.

The mechanism operates by virtue of council framework decision 2005/214/JHA here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/...214&from=EN

Article 4 says "A decision, together with a certificate as provided for in this Article, may be transmitted to the competent authorities of a Member State...", the primacy of EU law means this will have been implemented in French law. Unless the legal position changes between now and then, from 30 April the French authorities would have no basis in French and EU law to transmit the decision & certificate to the UK authorities, as the UK would not be a member state. As the transmission of information would be outwith the provisions of EU law, it would also constitute a breach of GDPR (let's not forget the information is sensitive personal data so it requires the highest level of protection).

By the way debt agencies were never involved, for as long as the UK is a member state the mechanism is that the French authorities pass the information to the competent UK authorities (I believe ultimately the CPS in this case), who then pursue magistrates' courts proceedings. Private companies would have no standing, letters from private companies about foreign traffic matters can be ignored as they have no domestic recourse in the UK.



There is no way of knowing what has been/will be agreed between the UK and the EU regarding Brexit of any form. Many myths are based on assumptions that have no basis. However, the mechanism to which you refer appears never to have been reported as used to pursue motoring penalties. Further visits to France may have more positive reprisals though!
cp8759
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Tue, 12 Mar 2019 - 20:19) *
There is no way of knowing what has been/will be agreed between the UK and the EU regarding Brexit of any form.

I'm just telling you what the legal position is as of right now. Could be different next week, but right now the law is what it is.

QUOTE (baroudeur @ Tue, 12 Mar 2019 - 20:19) *
Many myths are based on assumptions that have no basis. However, the mechanism to which you refer appears never to have been reported as used to pursue motoring penalties. Further visits to France may have more positive reprisals though!

It's been mentioned previously on here that at least one OP reported this happened to him, so clearly it's possible. It's just unlikely as the money stays with the local court.
roythebus
I had one as well, dated September 2018. i can't remember whether it was me or my partner driving. It could have been either of us!
cp8759
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 17:21) *
The notice of contravention shall be sent to the driver in the language used in the registration document of his vehicle or in one of the official languages of the country of registration.

There's a let-out for non -payment perhaps?

Well yes, the European Court of Human Rights has previously ruled that all such notices must be in a language the recipient can understand. Most countries have wised up to this and issue the paperwork in the language of the country of registration, so I'd be surprised if they were issuing notice in French to UK residents.
baroudeur
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 19:45) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 17:21) *
The notice of contravention shall be sent to the driver in the language used in the registration document of his vehicle or in one of the official languages of the country of registration.

There's a let-out for non -payment perhaps?

Well yes, the European Court of Human Rights has previously ruled that all such notices must be in a language the recipient can understand. Most countries have wised up to this and issue the paperwork in the language of the country of registration, so I'd be surprised if they were issuing notice in French to UK residents.


The requirement is imposed by the EU regulation on the exchange of keepers details for any of eight specific offences. The French are obviously aware of it as the link above is from an official French website.

None of the recipients of an Avis de Contravention has posted a redacted copy. It would be interesting to know if the fully automated system used in France is issuing notices in other EU languages.
roythebus
I'll try to do a redacted copy of my notice, it's in English.

We regularly drive from Calais via Dunkirk, Liile, Liege to the Ardennes and from September last year can't remember who was driving the bit through France. We normally chnge driver at the last service are in Belgium before entering France.
4x4x4
You can pay or contest a fine online, and all in English too!

https://www.antai.gouv.fr/?lang=en
baroudeur
QUOTE (roythebus @ Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 23:23) *
I'll try to do a redacted copy of my notice, it's in English.


Thanks. That will be useful for future use.

It seems that ANTAI (National agency for automated offence processing) have got the situation organised in time for the summer season.

ANTAI

Edit: seems that the link will not open. If interested search ANTAI
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