Hi all

After some advice, I've read some of the archive documents about drop offs at Newcastle Airport and what area's are and are not considered under the scope of byelaws.

Basically, the driver was issued a parking charge notice for stopping in the entrance way to the Double Tree hotel carpark to drop off a colleague who was staying there overnight. Total stop time, about 30 seconds. The driver didn't see the No Stopping sign as angled into the road and hadn't driven past it yet. The other signs are on the roundabout, which at night, is not something the driver focused on too much.

I had a read through the byelaws from the airport's website (2009 v2) and the PCN says the driver contravened section 6.3 (Parking in Prohibited Area) which they describe as

'Wait in, leave or park a vehicle where waiting or parking is prohibited by notice'.

I don't want to be pedantic, but the driver was neither waiting nor parking.

Section 3.3.1 then states that 6.3 can be dealt with by way of a PCN.

As the driver was in a hire car, the notification arrived today from the rental company about this, and I'm just looking at what the options are. Its frustrating that a 30 sec stop is going to cost £60 when the driver hadn't obstructed anyone or caused a traffic jam.

Is there action to take, or is it more a case of suck it up and pay the invoice?

Many thanks

DISOP

First of all edit your post so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred. Use "the driver....." etc.

Have you complained to the hotel about being charged for dropping off one of their customers?

What do they expect you to do at that barrier, drive straight through?

There are no signs facing that section of road and I don't believe the double yellows go round the corner.

Is all you have a copy of the PCN addressed to the hire company or is it in your own name? If it is in your own name did it also include a copy of the hire agreement? Is it called a parking or penalty charge notice? If not in your name (yet) then wait for it.

There hasn't been a complaint yet to the hotel, the notification was only received today.

The PCN is addressed to the hire car company, not the renter.

It is a Parking Charge Notice from UK Parking Patrol Office.

OK, then wait till you have the Notice to Hirer/ Keeper in your own name and then come back here. Without those extra documents they can't transfer liability to the keeper from the driver

You've missed one -

"I don't want to be pedantic but......."

Pardon my ignorance, but aren't the hire company the keeper and Joe Public the driver? Surely it's transferring liability from keeper to driver, not the other way round?

Now there's more edits to do! (and you've still left one in the first post)

They will try to transfer liability from the driver to the Hirer/keeper (you). Unless they were in the back seat they have no idea who was driving. The Registered keeper is the hire firm and they will notify the PPC that you were the Hirer/keeper

4 separate legal entities in play here:
Registered keeper, known to the DVLA, the hire company
Keeper, the person in control of the car, you
Hirer, the person that hired the car, you
Driver, the person driving , not known and hopefully not

Get editing your last post, and that section of your first already noted

You are the Keeper / Hirer.
It is not uncommon for taxis to be shared between drivers and driven for 24 hours a day.
as such UKPPO will not know if the hirer or someone else was driving.
So is it the owner that is notifying the Hirer. UKPPO have to do that with a notice to hirer with other documents.
So stop referring to to the actions of the driver and let the hirer deal with the inadequate notices which are being received.

As it is being pointed out, you should edit the actions of the Driver and rephrase those of the hirer so that the two are distinctly separate.

The Keeper is who [at the relevant time] has control of the vehicle, even for part of a day.

Allow the Hirer to deal with everything from now on, going forward.

OK, so the keeper should just wait for the registered keeper to sort things out and maybe the parking company will eventually issue paperwork in the name of the driver?

How will the parking company issue anything to the driver? Unless somebody tells them who was driving of course

Wont' the registered keeper provide that information?

Only if the registered keeper (the hire company) had somebody sitting in the car at the time, otherwise they can only know for certain who hired the vehicle from them (you), so the PPC can only issue a notice to hirer/keeper (you).

The driver drove the vehicle on the day and has nothing to do with this any longer. They are out of it now.

Hi

Be sure of terms of hire agreement. Everyone I have had iincludes terms like:' only drivers named on the agreement'

ATB

So, if there was only one name as hirer and driver, then surely that person should pay, there is no need for some sort of 'declaration'?

It is not who you declare to be the hirer or driver, even if they are the same person.
It is the Person that signed the hire agreement that agrees to accept liability, which is the one of the documents that you are waiting for from UKPPO.

See this link

Chapinthehat: please stop obfuscating the issue!! Anyone whose insurance permits them to drive other vehicles can legally drive. It may be against the terms of the hire agreement but this is irrelevant at this time


Op, either heed the advice and stop talking about the driver or pay the darn PCN and we can all have a rest.

Ostell, apologies, I'm trying to understand the vernacular hence the, what may seem stupid questions.

It appears as if the hire car company have paid this invoice and are billing the drivers firm. So, this looks like now as if it's an internal matter for them to claim recompense from the employee.

To which the employee can stick up two fingers because he didn't have the opportunity to challenge the 'invoice.'

Are you sure they're not just billing the admin charge?

From the letter, it says they've paid the charge plus a 30 quid admin fee.

Check out your hire agreement. Post the part up here about parking charges etc.

Either post up a link to the image or type it out verbatim.

Hi

Only with the owner's permission which here the hire company excludes by the hirer signing to that effect my limiting usr of vehicle to people named on the hire agreement.

ATB

Stop confusing the issue please !! What is says about who is permitted to driver is completely irrelevant and a separate issue in this argument.

Any argument about drivers being allowed to drive or not would be a matter between the hire company and the hirer, nothing to do with the PPC and the issue at hand here.

Re-reading this, there's actually an extra layer here. The OP is not the hirer, just the keeper.
RK = hire firm
Hirer = OP's employer
Keeper = OP
Driver = xxxxxx
It still stands that the hire company should not have just paid this. If I sent the hire company an invoice for £60 for a full valet on the car would they just pay it and invoice the hirer? Thought not. (If the answer is yes, please let me know the name of the hire company and I'll stick a few in the post).

OP - get out your hire agreement
Scrutinise it for anything to d owith parkingnotices / penalty noticies / any other verbiage
See what it ALLOWS them to do, and very carefully look at what categories are included

If it is call FINES, PENALTIES or other TRAFFIC VILATIONS Then clearly that does not apply to a document issued by a private firm that is not any form of "authority"