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chimaera01
Hi,

I received in the post yesterday a charge certificate regarding to a contravention on Linkfield Rd/London rd.

This is the first time I have received information regarding this. Apparently I was sent a penalty charge notice on 18/01/19. The contravention happened on the 14/09/18.

The amount is now up to £195. They are also saying if this is not paid they may apply to the county court to register the charge certificate.

I have googled the info regarding the road and it is down to a road alteration back in 2017, when they changed the road to a no entry sign. So I could have possibly turned down it without realising.

I am very annoyed that this is the first I have heard of it considering it happened back in September 2018.

I will be contacting my work to find out who gave them my address as it is a company car and whether the wrong address was given.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.




makara
Post up all sides of the paperwork (edit out your name and address, etc).

From memory a few have been caught by this junction.

EDIT - yes, here's one -

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=118105

stamfordman
Forget the contravention for now. You need to find out what happened to the original PCN and if it was reassigned to you and went missing. Is the CC in your name and address?
chimaera01




chimaera01
The CC is in my name and address.

The address is slightly inaccurate as the town name is on the same line as the street name.

Is my best approach to contact London Borough of Hounslow and ask for all previous correspondence, to be sent to me and explain this is the first time I have heard of this.

I will also contact my work tomorrow and explain and find out what department deals with.








Neil B
QUOTE (chimaera01 @ Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 15:37) *
it is a company car

So they are registered keeper?

I'm trying to understand how the notice is in your name.

Do you insure and tax the vehicle yourself?
chimaera01
It is a company car which is provided for work use.

I pay company car tax for use of the car, that is all, everything else is paid for.

I think what happens is Hounslow borough council contact the dvla, they say the car is registered to the company I work for. They then contact the company I work for and obtain my details to send me the charge.
stamfordman
Ask your company what the PCN procedure is and what happened to the PCN - it's the PCN that is vital because if it was re-served to you in your name and you didn't get it you can get the process reset when the council enforces the debt.

In fact, regardless of this the CC is in your name and you got no PCN so it's automatic to get it reset.
chimaera01
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 19:09) *
Ask your company what the PCN procedure is and what happened to the PCN - it's the PCN that is vital because if it was re-served to you in your name and you didn't get it you can get the process reset when the council enforces the debt.

In fact, regardless of this the CC is in your name and you got no PCN so it's automatic to get it reset.


I will be contacting my work tomorrow.

How can I prove to Hounslow Borough Council that I did not receive the PCN?

Should I contact the council tomorrow once i have spoken to work to explain what has happened? I can only contact them by email which is another annoying factor.
stamfordman
QUOTE (chimaera01 @ Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 19:41) *
How can I prove to Hounslow Borough Council that I did not receive the PCN?



You don't have to. You make a declaration you didn't get it when you get the order for (debt) recovery - this is automatically accepted. See

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...rcement-process
chimaera01
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 20:04) *
QUOTE (chimaera01 @ Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 19:41) *
How can I prove to Hounslow Borough Council that I did not receive the PCN?



You don't have to. You make a declaration you didn't get it when you get the order for (debt) recovery - this is automatically accepted. See

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...rcement-process



Ok thank you for the information, never been in this situation before and don't want to end up with baliffs after me!!


Neil B
QUOTE (chimaera01 @ Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 18:21) *
I think what happens is Hounslow borough council contact the dvla, they say the car is registered to the company I work for. They then contact the company I work for and obtain my details to send me the charge.

No, I'm still not happy.

It might be leased or your employer own it outright. The former would explain the delay.
The 'owner' of the vehicle is liable.
But a lease co can transfer liability to a lessee as effective owner.

So is it leased and, if so, who is the lessee?

Because no, your employer cannot transfer liability to you in the way you describe.

The number of people we've seen recently who accept company vehicles without a clue of
where it comes from or their responsibilities is astounding.
hcandersen
I will be contacting my work to find out who gave them my address as it is a company car and whether the wrong address was given.


So why ask our advice if you're telling us what you are going to do?

Anyway, you're wrong so don't do it.

Presuming the CC was issued recently ( your photos are out of focus, what is the date?) then ONLY question and issue is this: did you receive the postal PCN?

That's it. No investigations, no finding out who dun it or didn't do it, just one simple question.

And if you did not receive the PCN, then you wait for the next notice - an Order for Recovery- and complete the enclosure as required. You then send this to the Traffic Enforcement Centre who WILL revoke the OfR and cancel the CC.

Simples.

No Perry Mason or Miss Marple, just complete a form.

The law is NOT interested in why you did not receive the PCN and no-one will ask you why or seek the council's opinion. But if you knowingly make a false declaration you could be pursued criminally.

There are some other secondary actions which you could take while waiting, but for now I just want to be certain that you know what to do with the CC.
Neil B
and come back here if you don't have an OfR by, say, 20th March.

(22/2 HCA)
chimaera01
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 21:50) *
I will be contacting my work to find out who gave them my address as it is a company car and whether the wrong address was given.


So why ask our advice if you're telling us what you are going to do?

Anyway, you're wrong so don't do it.

Presuming the CC was issued recently ( your photos are out of focus, what is the date?) then ONLY question and issue is this: did you receive the postal PCN?

That's it. No investigations, no finding out who dun it or didn't do it, just one simple question.

And if you did not receive the PCN, then you wait for the next notice - an Order for Recovery- and complete the enclosure as required. You then send this to the Traffic Enforcement Centre who WILL revoke the OfR and cancel the CC.

Simples.

No Perry Mason or Miss Marple, just complete a form.

The law is NOT interested in why you did not receive the PCN and no-one will ask you why or seek the council's opinion. But if you knowingly make a false declaration you could be pursued criminally.

There are some other secondary actions which you could take while waiting, but for now I just want to be certain that you know what to do with the CC.



I thought by getting as much info from work to find out what happened to the PCN, I would be helping. I came on here too get assistance and extremely grateful for the kind and helpful information I have received.

I did NOT receive the postal PCN, if I had I would have paid it, if it proved I was in the wrong.

The CC was issued to me on 22nd Feb 2019. The PCN was apparently sent to me on 18/01/2019. The Contravention was 14/09/2018.
Neil B
QUOTE (chimaera01 @ Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 22:25) *
You mentioned they will revoke the OFR and cancel the CC then what will happen?

Council can cancel or issue a new PCN -- which you bring here of course wink.gif
chimaera01
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 22:39) *
QUOTE (chimaera01 @ Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 22:25) *
You mentioned they will revoke the OFR and cancel the CC then what will happen?

Council can cancel or issue a new PCN -- which you bring here of course wink.gif



Thanks again for the help.
chimaera01
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chimaera01
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hcandersen
However you took my post, it achieved its desired effect: it stopped you in your tracks, brought you back on to the procedural straight and narrow and will avoid you setting uncontrolled hares running with your employer?

Would you also pl post the CC again, it's not clear.

The Act is here:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/...edule/1/enacted

Ss 7(1), 7(8) and 7(9) apply.

As you will see, the heading is Invalid Notices which means that what you have is invalid. You're not trying to get a valid penalty cancelled, you are bringing to the attention of the court(Traffic Enforcement Centre - do not get concerned about the word 'court') that the CC and OfR are invalid. It is standard fare within the enforcement arena, probably happens hundreds of times a week.

If they re-serve the PCN, fine. But one step at a time.
chimaera01
Here are the images again, I have uploaded them in the highest setting and used the forum thumbnail link. The quality is better but still not great, click on the pic for full size.



hcandersen
Issued 22nd, served 26th therefore 14-day payment period ends 11 March.

I would contact the authority on or around 13th and regularly thereafter asking when the OfR will be issued. Do not discuss or debate the contravention.

Then come back here.

What's happened before is not relevant, they would serve a fresh PCN and we start from square 1.
chimaera01
Thanks again for your help.

There is no chance that the current CC won't get cancelled? After reading the legislation it all sounds failry straight forward.

Also will this affect my credit rating?

Sorry for the questions but new to all this.
cp8759
If you follow the correct process and don't miss the deadlines, the cancellation of the OfR and CC is automatic. PCNs cannot impact your credit rating at all, in any way.
hcandersen
OP, I gave you the legal context in post #20. Have you read this?

It doesn't matter what you, I, or anyone else thinks, the LAW is clear and prescriptive: if you submit a statutory declaration in time then the court have no choice other than to cancel the docs as stated. End of.
chimaera01
I have read all the regulations several times. Was just double checking. Thanks Hcandersen.
chimaera01
I have contacted the council by email on the 12th but still not heard back from them. They say they respond with. 10 days but can be up to 50...
I have spoken to the TEC and they have not registered the debt yet. I checked on the 13th and 18th.
Is there anything else I can do or is it just a waiting game?
cp8759
QUOTE (chimaera01 @ Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 11:26) *
I have contacted the council by email on the 12th but still not heard back from them. They say they respond with. 10 days but can be up to 50...
I have spoken to the TEC and they have not registered the debt yet. I checked on the 13th and 18th.
Is there anything else I can do or is it just a waiting game?

It's just a waiting game, you can't force the council to register the debt let alone serve an Order for Recovery. Make sure you keep checking with TEC around once a wee, if you miss the OfR due to postal issues it can cause real problems so you want to minimise the chances of this happening.
chimaera01
Thanks for the information. I thought this was probably the case. I will keep ringing the TEC to check regularly.
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