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soyaco
As the keeper of the vehicle, I received a PCN and a 'First reminder' from Premier Parking for "Exceeding maximum stay period" - unfortunately I, the keeper am currently abroad, and have been abroad since 6th Dec, and was only notified of the below after asking a family member to drop by the house and see if there are any utility bills via post. I will be back in the UK on the 8th Feb

Copies of the two letters received has been attached.

The driver has tried contacting B&M about this and this was their response:
"Thank you for your email and I am sorry to hear that you have received a parking ticket while shopping at B&M.

It is unfortunate that restrictions and charges need to be imposed due to non B&M customers using the car park, and customers using our car park as base while they continue shopping etc with other retailers.

We have no direct control over these penalty notices as they are issued and controlled by the car park management company in conjunction with the landlord of the property. The company who manage the car parks are open to reviewing parking tickets when a customer is able to provide details of purchases (receipt or bank statement) in our stores at the time the ticket was received. All contact details for the parking company will be on the letter you have received.

I do hope that this incident does not deter you from shopping with B&M in the future and we look forward to seeing you in one of our stores.

Kind Regards,

​Kate
B&M Customer Services"


Is there anything the driver can do at this late stage?

When the driver contacted B&M, they showed them a screenshot of a bank statement purchasing from them on that day.
bearclaw
amend your post so you do not identify the driver - refer to "the driver" and "the keeper".

What was the date of parking by the driver?
soyaco
QUOTE (bearclaw @ Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 12:06) *
amend your post so you do not identify the driver - refer to "the driver" and "the keeper".

What was the date of parking by the driver?


Thanks. Now edited.

Date of parking: 24th November 2018
ostell
The notice has many errors and does not comply with the requirements of POFA to be able to hold the keeper liable. Here's a link to POFA In the first paragraph they are stating that "YOU" are bound, no the driver was bound.

There is no 9 (2) (e),
no period of parking 9 (2) (a) Moving in front of the cameras is not, by definition, parking. (out of interest what was the period?)
warning at 9 (2) (f) incorrectly given.
No creditor Identified 9 (2) (h)

Write to them pointing out their errors and that there can be no keeper liabilities. Make sure that they know your address abroad.

Post up you letter for critique before sending.

Here's my suggestion I have for the 9 (2) (f) fail so that you get the idea and it's a starter. They will probably say it's too late but the rules are of their own making.

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc


soyaco
QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 12:26) *
The notice has many errors and does not comply with the requirements of POFA to be able to hold the keeper liable. Here's a link to POFA In the first paragraph they are stating that "YOU" are bound, no the driver was bound.

There is no 9 (2) (e),
no period of parking 9 (2) (a) Moving in front of the cameras is not, by definition, parking. (out of interest what was the period?)
warning at 9 (2) (f) incorrectly given.
No creditor Identified 9 (2) (h)

Write to them pointing out their errors and that there can be no keeper liabilities. Make sure that they know your address abroad.

Post up you letter for critique before sending.

Here's my suggestion I have for the 9 (2) (f) fail so that you get the idea and it's a starter. They will probably say it's too late but the rules are of their own making.

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc


Thanks for this. I'll try and put together a letter and post it up.

Will it be ok to just send them the letter via email? I found their appeals email address online: appeals.premierpark.co.uk

The stay period is 75mins according to a quick search google.

ostell
No, what is the stay period on the PCN, the time measured by the cameras.
soyaco
QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 12:42) *
No, what is the stay period on the PCN, the time measured by the cameras.


Sorry, misunderstood your post.

Stay period is 2hrs 9mins
bearclaw
Adding £15 to the total if not paid on time? Dont think they can do that - they are meant to discount the amount to encourage early payment not penalise for late...

Is it a two hour stay limit? Because if so that 2 hours and nine minutes is within the grace periods they must allow
soyaco
QUOTE (bearclaw @ Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 13:01) *
Adding £15 to the total if not paid on time? Dont think they can do that - they are meant to discount the amount to encourage early payment not penalise for late...

Is it a two hour stay limit? Because if so that 2 hours and nine minutes is within the grace periods they must allow


The stay limit is 75mins, so just under 1hr over the limit.

This retail park has stores like Curry's, Benson's for beds, Halfords etc - stores where people tend to stay longer than 75mins at! So 75mins is quite ridiculous...
bearclaw
A quick look on Google street view shows that there is one sign with a nice big P on entry when the driver is distracted looking at the narrow gate to fit between. (I'd hate to take my car there it's wider - and theres no warning signs!)

I cannot see any other signs at all. IS that the case - if so get down there yourself and take lots of nice pictures showing where the driver went and the total lack of signs...

Also you might want to start asking the local council via a FOI request for all the planning decisions etc relating to that car park if they are not on the planning portal. That can also be useful if it gets as far as POPLA
soyaco
This is what I've drafted so far:

Dear Sir/Madam,

RE: PCN No. xxxxx, VRM No: xxxxx

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxxx.

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to:

Failure to inform me, as the keeper that you are only contacting me due to not knowing the driver’s name and the driver’s current address as stated in Section 9 (2) (e) of the Act.

Failure to give notice of the keeper’s liability as prescribed in Section 9 (2) (f) of the Act.

You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at this time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours faithfully,

Xxxx (the Keeper’s name)


QUOTE (bearclaw @ Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 13:16) *
A quick look on Google street view shows that there is one sign with a nice big P on entry when the driver is distracted looking at the narrow gate to fit between. (I'd hate to take my car there it's wider - and theres no warning signs!)

I cannot see any other signs at all. IS that the case - if so get down there yourself and take lots of nice pictures showing where the driver went and the total lack of signs...

Also you might want to start asking the local council via a FOI request for all the planning decisions etc relating to that car park if they are not on the planning portal. That can also be useful if it gets as far as POPLA


I am unfortunately abroad at the moment, so won't be able to get down to the retail park to take a look. But the narrow barriers/gates is definitely still there. I'll have to see if I can get someone to take a look for me.
bearclaw
Your reply looks good to me. However you could add in as OStell also said I think 9 2 a about moving isnt parking.

Are you abroad permanantly? Or will you be returning?
cabbyman
That looks OK.
soyaco
Updated letter:

Dear Sir/Madam,

RE: PCN No. xxxxx, VRM No: xxxxx

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxxx.

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to:

- Failure to inform me, as the keeper that you are only contacting me due to not knowing the driver’s name and the driver’s current address as stated in Section 9 (2) (e) of the Act.

- Failure to give notice of the keeper’s liability as prescribed in Section 9 (2) (f) of the Act

- Failure to specify the period of parking as per Section 9 (2) (a); moving in front of a camera is not, by definition, “Parking”

You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at this time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours faithfully,

Xxxx (the Keeper’s name)



QUOTE (bearclaw @ Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 13:23) *
Your reply looks good to me. However you could add in as OStell also said I think 9 2 a about moving isnt parking.

Are you abroad permanantly? Or will you be returning?


I'll be returning in 3 weeks time.
soyaco
Just received a response from Premier Park:

"We write to acknowledge receipt of your recent online appeal, on behalf of the driver, appealing against the issuing of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) to the vehicle.

We note your comments and must refer you to the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012, Schedule 4 - Recovery of unpaid Parking Charges. This is available to view online at:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4

We must therefore request that the details of the driver of the vehicle at the time of the contravention are supplied; this must include their full name and serviceable UK postal address. If you are unwilling or unable to provide these details the registered keeper of this vehicle will remain liable for this PCN. This information should be provided by 24th January 2019. Please note, Premier Park Limited will not reply to any correspondence until after the above date, if the requested information is not provided.

If we do not receive this information by the date given, the registered keeper of the vehicle at the date of event will be held liable.

If you would like to view our photographic evidence, please visit www.pcnpayments.com

Please respond by return or by filling in the Transfer of Liability form on the reverse of the PCN and posting it to Premier Park, PO Box 624, Exeter, EX1 9JG."
nosferatu1001
Thats their usual template.

Expect a rejection at POPLA, as POPLA bend over backwards for PP
However, there is little chance a court would ever say the same.
bearclaw
Thats nice of them. They dont want to give you a POPLA code as they pay.

Id see what others say but since the are BPA I'd sit tight and see if they forget. They havent explicitly denied your appeal so far... if they forget and it runs over the deemed accepted period it might be worth a punt... IT's theur usual reject letter that.
nosferatu1001
No such thing as "deemedd accepted" any longer.
soyaco
Should I respond and request for the POPLA code now? Or just leave it for a while?
nosferatu1001
Leave it.
cabbyman
Leave it. You have complied with their requirement by refusing to identify the driver, as stated in your original letter. The ball is in their court to make the next move.
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