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FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
maralions
Hello everyone,

I received a PCN on 25/09/18. I rang the council and was told that if I wanted to appeal then I had to send an email. I did this by email as requested on 13/10/18, within the limit for the reduced fine. The paperwork says that if I were to appeal then the time to pay the reduced fee would be frozen, and so if I lost the appeal, I would still be able to pay the reduced amount of £65.

I heard nothing but have since received a letter dated 03/01/2019 that I failed to make a representation and now the charge is £195.

I immediately rang the council and asked them what had happened as I had not received a reply to my appeal. The operator said that they had sent me a letter on 6th November rejecting my appeal and that I hadn't responded. I never received this letter!

I don't really know what to do now. Any advice? If I had received the rejection letter I would have just accepted the charge and paid up. But I never had that chance. I feel that this is very unfair.

Any advice? Thanks very much.
Neil B
A PCN for what. Show us it please.
Starworshipper12
Post all docs you have. When you say ‘received’ a PCN, was it affixed to your car or posted to you?
maralions
Sorry, I don't have a scanner with me. It is for:

38JL: Failing to comply with a sign indicating that vehicular traffic must pass to the specified side of the sign.

The reasons for increasing the fine, from what the operator told me, was that I had not responded to the rejection of my appeal (which was made by email). I didn't receive this letter, but the operator read it out to me on the phone.

It then says reasons for the charge certificate being served, giving four reasons, and the only one that I can see applies (as I don't know what a Notice of Rejection is but don't think I have sent/received one...) is that 'No representations were made against the Penalty Charge Notice and the penalty charge has not been paid within 28 days beginning with the date of service of that notice."

It then says:
"It is now too late to appeal against paying this penalty charge
The penalty charge has not been paid in full"

With a breakdown of:

Penalty Charge Amount: £130
Charge Certificate Amount £65
Full Charge: £195

It was in London and I was unfamilar with this strange layout of having to go down a very narrow passage instead of in the middle of the road, as you would have with traffic calming one-way system. I made my case but it's been rejected, and I can't really argue any further. I saw the sign, remember being confused as I would have had to stop in a keep clear area and it looked like a VERY tight passage, but ultimately I didn't do what the sign said. I don't have the energy for a long battle with them and I'll probably lose.

My argument is that if I had had received their reply in the post, I would have just sucked it up and paid the £65 reduced fee (which was still applicable as I appealed within the time).

I absolutely did not receive this letter in response to my appeal, either by email or by post. I live with two other people who check the mail and it was not received.


Sorry, the first one was posted to me. I had no idea I had done anything wrong until I got the letter in the post.

I can post my appeal if that helps, but ultimately I'm happy to pay the £65. I hadn't seen this sign before, was looking for an address, and I went to the wrong side of it. I disagree with the charge as I was actually trying to drive safely but that's no argument for an appeal. I just want the right to be able to pay the reduced cost at £65 which is what I believed I could do.

I appreciate that this is a forum for parking tickets but I posted on Money Saving Expert and they advised me to come here!
Incandescent
This forum is for all decriminalised motoring contraventions, so includes parking, bus lanes, and, (in London), other things like stopping in box junctions and ignoring some other signs.
So you are in the right forum !!

You cannot appeal a Charge Certificate, only pay it. However, if you wait for the next statutory document, the Order for Recovery, (issued when TEC register the debt), you can submit a free Statutory Declaration that you did not receive the Notice of Rejection of Representations. The process is then reset back to the original PCN at which point you can pay the discount or appeal it again. You have, I think, 28 days to pay the CC, so after this time has elapsed, you need to be proactive and pester the council to ask if they have issued the OfR. You can also ring TEC at the same time to see if the debt has been registered. The OfR is the one document you must get so make sure you get it, don't just wait around for it.
maralions
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 23:19) *
This forum is for all decriminalised motoring contraventions, so includes parking, bus lanes, and, (in London), other things like stopping in box junctions and ignoring some other signs.
So you are in the right forum !!

You cannot appeal a Charge Certificate, only pay it. However, if you wait for the next statutory document, the Order for Recovery, (issued when TEC register the debt), you can submit a free Statutory Declaration that you did not receive the Notice of Rejection of Representations. The process is then reset back to the original PCN at which point you can pay the discount or appeal it again. You have, I think, 28 days to pay the CC, so after this time has elapsed, you need to be proactive and pester the council to ask if they have issued the OfR. You can also ring TEC at the same time to see if the debt has been registered. The OfR is the one document you must get so make sure you get it, don't just wait around for it.


Thanks. I've emailed the same address and said that I did not receive their reply but I've had no response yet.

I'm really worried about not paying - will it definitely be OK if I go down this route? I am begrudged to pay the fine anyway as I think it's ridiculous, but to pay £195 or more is something I cannot afford to do!

Should I just wait 28 days and then ring them and look out for this letter? How do I give the free Statutory Declaration, by post or email or form or will these details be sent to me? Are there any other potential outcomes?

Thanks again. If you're interested, it was here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5466863,-0....6384!8i8192
hcandersen
OP, this is the statutory process.

So it's not what we think or what clever plan can be concocted to deal with the matter, it's a legal process.

No dramas, no problems, just straight bats.

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...rcement-process


@Incandescent, not quite.

The OP received the PCN but not the NOR. The route for the authority is therefore to refer the matter to the adjudicator.(OP, in London a practice has developed whereby once the authority have been told to cancel the CC and OfR they reissue the NOR. In your case you say you'd pay the discount, so maybe this is where the thread would end).

OP, don't write to the authority any more or phone them, just play by the rules.

If they want to pursue the penalty they must issue the OfR, and when they do you come back to us. The CC has a latest date for payment, give it a week after this and if you've still heard nothing come back anyway.
maralions
OK thank you. So I should simply ignore the CC, wait to hear back from them, and then respond to that. Either it will be a letter telling me that they will accept the £65 or an OfR.

If it is the latter, will I still be able to pay the discounted £65?

Will it affect my credit history at all with it being a debt?

Thanks again.
Incandescent
QUOTE (maralions @ Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 15:44) *
OK thank you. So I should simply ignore the CC, wait to hear back from them, and then respond to that. Either it will be a letter telling me that they will accept the £65 or an OfR.

If it is the latter, will I still be able to pay the discounted £65?

Will it affect my credit history at all with it being a debt?

Thanks again.

If you ignore the CC, then they must send you an "Order for Recovery". This is still payable, but £8 is added to the £195. You do not pay, because included with it will be a form to submit a Statutory Declaration. You fill this in and tick the box for stating you did not receive the Notice of Rejection of Formal Representations (NOR). If you look at what HCA says in his post , they may just resend their NOR. Their rejection letter you didn't get may have re-offered the discount, but you'll only know when you get it. There is no right to it.

Let us know when you've got the OfR and we can take you through the process. There is nothing to fear, no chance of a CCJ, or anything. What you must do is check up on the OfR as advised earlier because it is the last document in the process before bailiffs can be instructed.
maralions
Thanks very much. I should have been offered the discount with the NOR as I appealed within the timeframe and it should have been put on hold. I hope so. I feel quite upset about this because I don't think I did anything wrong, I was trying to drive safely for goodness sake! What a ridiculous road system. I followed all the correct channels and now they want me to pay even more money. Anyway rant over. Thanks very much for your help, hopefully it will all go smoothly.
Neil B
Just let us know if you haven't received the OfR by the end of this month.
We can tell you what to do for peace of mind then.
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