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Full Version: PCN - private car park - CCTV of vehicle entering and leaving
FightBack Forums > Queries > Private Parking Tickets & Clamping
Mr.Bourbon
Just received PCN for ".. insufficient paid time.."
Images show vehicle entering at 12:58 and leaving at 15:16.
The driver paid for 2 hours parking.
So, I was thinking my appeal could be :

... ban on the use of ‘CCTV’ for issuing automated fines except in those no-parking areas around schools, bus stops, bus lanes and red routes.
OR
No evidence vehicle was " parked" longer than paid time, only images of entry-exit time, likely driver was finding a space, leaving space and making way to exit in the additional 18 minutes.

Any advice welcome,
Thanks in advance.

And Happy New year
Ollyfrog
Can you post up redacted copies of both sides of the PCN? Remove any QR codes too, but leave the dates of incident and issue. There may well be some failure in the wording and the experts will be able to pick holes in that for you. In the meantime edit your post to talk about "the driver" (the driver paid for the parking, the driver was looking for a space etc.)

Jlc
Who issued it?

There's no ANPR ban for private car parks. Grace periods may have some mileage, moreso if you were waiting for a space.
Mr.Bourbon
Trying to upload... And get images under 1.95.
Ollyfrog
Try following the guidance here: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858
Mr.Bourbon
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Sorry about the quality... or lack of.
Jlc
Smart? Or not so Smart....

They don't use keeper liability.

So, appeal that as they have failed to use the Protection of Freedoms Act to pursue the keeper then you have no liability for the charge. Either cancel it or issue a POPLA code so they can be told to cancel it....


Happy New Year!!!!
Mr.Bourbon
Thanks for the quick reply, so how would I "word" the appeal.
Mr.Bourbon
So.....
Is the Notice to Owner invalid because the time the vehicle was parked is not stated on the notice, only details of when the vehicle entered and exited the car park. Therefore, do I wait 28 days and then state the Notice to Owner is invalid, because the time the vehicle was parked is missing from the notice.

Also invalid because does not comply with the following?

State whether a notice to the driver was given either to the driver or placed on the vehicle and if so to repeat the information in that notice about paying the parking charge and when.

No mention of this on the notice.
ostell
It's not a notice to owner, it's a Notice to Keeper. How would they know the owner?

They have to get the wording correct to comply with POFA to be able to transfer liability from the unknown driver to the keeper. Here's POFA Just cehck everything that is required in paragraph 9 is in the notice. If I could read it I would check and give you a suitable letter but there is not enough definition to read it. Perhaps you could amend youer post with better definition images?

Or when you find out what is wrong then you can find some of those letters already in the forum.
Mr.Bourbon
Hopefully these are clearer
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Thanks once again for your help.
Happy New year
Jlc
Dear Sirs,

I have received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with many of the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc
ostell
That's the letter, as long as the required details are not on the reverse.

Send first class mail with a free certificate of posting from a post office.

Smart will usually cancel but if they don't then you will add all the other failures to the POPLA appeal.

They must be really keen to get their money! Posting a NTK on Christmas day. trying to fiddle the figures. As it is it just arrived in time for the 14 days.
Mr.Bourbon
Thanks for the replies.
So, should I wait 28 days before sending?
Thanks again.
ostell
It doesn't really matter, there is no benefit in this case. They cannot now send a POFA compliant NTK.
Mr.Bourbon
OK, many thanks for the replies.
Happy New Year to you all.
Jlc
Send straightaway - don't give them an excuse to say the appeal was late and now must be paid.
Mr.Bourbon
Will do.
Thanks again.
Mr.Bourbon
Just received parking charge notice CANCELLATION!!!
Thanks for all your help, much appreciated.
Jlc
Not so smart are they...
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