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frank murphy 123
Hi
If possible can I get advice I'm really stressed. I parked my car in London and I had two wheels on the pavement, I thought i was doing the right thing to let people pass. I am from Bournemouth, I came back from work to find my car gone i thought it had been stolen so I reported it to the police as stolen, I said the car had been taken outside of my home in Bournemouth as I thought it would affect my insurance if i said the car was stolen in London, a month later i went home to Bournemouth and i had a pcn in the post which i paid, the insurance company have paid out and the car is now theirs. i just came home to Bournemouth last Saturday and i found out the council in London how towed my car and had my car in storage, I had a bill for 2000 pounds and i was told i had to pay the bill or my car would be destroyed, the car is no longer mine as i have sold the car to the insurance company.

Please advice what should i do now,
cp8759
So you've given false information to the police, and have potentially committed insurance fraud. This is not good.

On top of this, you owe £2,000 to the council in London. It's no good saying the car is no longer yours, it was yours when it was towed and if you don't pay, the council can pursue you for the outstanding debt, which could ultimately result in the bailiffs coming to your house.

Why did you think it would affect your insurance if the car was stolen from London? I drive to London from time to time, if my car was stolen there I wouldn't say it was stolen from outside my house??

How much was the car worth, and how much was the insurance payout?
The Rookie
Parking on the footway in London is a contravention.

Unless the council have made a mistake it’s hard to see a way out, especially as what looks suspiciously like an attempted fraud got you into this hole in the first place.

In your case it’s absolutley worth appealing the PCN as it can’t get any worse, we’ll need a photo or scan of ALL the PCN with just personal details redacted.

This needs moving to the council forum, I’ve asked a mod’ to move it for you.
frank murphy 123
I am a first time car owner I thought it would affect my insurance if I said the car was stolen in London I an naive the car was worth 1500, the insurance company paid out 1200, the council have tole me they will destroy my car, will the council chase me for the 2000,


cp8759
QUOTE (frank murphy 123 @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 18:39) *
I am a first time car owner I thought it would affect my insurance if I said the car was stolen in London I an naive the car was worth 1500, the insurance company paid out 1200, the council have tole me they will destroy my car, will the council chase me for the 2000,

Legally the council can chase you for the £2,000; it seems unlikely they'll just forget about it. On top of the £2,000, they might also chase you for the cost of scrapping the car.

However IMO your bigger problem is the insurance, now that you know the car is not stolen they could argue it is theft / fraud for you to keep the insurance money, which you are not (and never were) entitled to. Your car was no doubt insured against theft, it was almost certainly not insured against being towed by a local authority.

I think you need to do three things:

1) Stop telling lies, to the police, the council, the insurance company, everyone. Telling lies is what got you into this situation in the first place and it can only make things worse.

2) Tell the police that the car has been located in a council pound, and they can remove the stolen marker from it. If they probe you, you're best advised to say nothing further to them.

3) Tell the insurance company what's happened, they will no doubt demand repayment of the £1,200 but they should also remove the claim from your insurance history.

As for the £2,000 bill, I suggest you upload the all the paperwork you have received, redacting just your name and address, so we can confirm whether your right of appeal has expired or not. It's unusual for owners not to reclaim their vehicle straight away so there's at least hope the council has made a mistake with the paperwork.
notmeatloaf
One would imagine the police would have already queried the local council to find out whether they had towed it. They may probe, they may of course be happy just to close a file.

As for the car, I think on this front you have to tell the insurance company and let them decide what they want to do. It is after all their car if they have paid you for it. I think you would be digging deeper if you start deciding what the council do with your car.

In terms of outcome you need to look at your policy documents but my guess will be they will seek to recover their costs from you which are likely to be substantial. You will also need to tell your current insurance company as the details you gave about your claim will be wrong. They will, one would imagine, cancel your policy.

What I don't get us why on earth you thought there was a cheaper part of the country to have your car stolen, unless you aren't telling the whole truth about that.
frank murphy 123
Sorry I am telling the whole truth because my car was not parked outside my house in London, I thought this would invalidate the insurance, I have contacted the police just now to say the car has been found, I will email the insurance company now,

Thank you for the advice
BaggieBoy
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 19:30) *
One would imagine the police would have already queried the local council to find out whether they had towed it.

However if this was reported to Dorset Police it's unlikely they would query the various London councils.

cp8759
QUOTE (frank murphy 123 @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 19:35) *
Sorry I am telling the whole truth because my car was not parked outside my house in London, I thought this would invalidate the insurance, I have contacted the police just now to say the car has been found, I will email the insurance company now,

Thank you for the advice

You need to post the council paperwork to see what we can do about the £2,000 bill. We can't help without seeing the paperwork.
Slapdash
"outside of my home in Bournemouth"

"outside my house in London"

Neil B
QUOTE (frank murphy 123 @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 19:35) *
outside my house in London,

Eh?
So prior to all this you'd already insured the car at a false address, i.e. Bournmouth, when you actually live in London?
If so, I think you'd defrauded the insurance co already.
frank murphy 123
Hi
I live in Bournemouth, I am renting in London, my car is always in Bournemouth, but i had the car in London for two weeks work.
cp8759
You need to show is the paperwork from the council. The insurance company will no doubt want the £1,200 back so it's probably best to find out if you can challenge the £2,000 bill from the council.
DancingDad
I am concerned that you are not telling us something, has one of the parties, police insurance council called foul on your stories ?
hcandersen
OP, cp is correct and it appears you're taking advice.

Back to the council..

You cannot have a PCN, so why not post what you received - so far we've no idea about timings.

You have a NTO, don't you? And this requires you (hopefully you're still in time) to make representations. So let's get to grips with this, shall we?
frank murphy 123
Your right I have a NTO, I received the NTO 31 days after the car was removed, and 31 days storage fees, why on earth did the council delay sending me the NTO for 31 days, I am out of time now on the NTO the 21 days have passed as I only got back to Bournemouth and seen it last . I don't have a scanner I cant post documents, when I logged into the council website the payment function has been removed and I was told to contact the council.
cp8759
Take a photo on your phone and upload to imgur.com

You almost certainty have a right to appeal, but we can't confirm without seeing the paperwork.
DancingDad
28 days to challenge an NTO but you said you paid it ??
Which removes avenues on challenging the PCN as council will simply say you accepted by paying.
Leaves the removal grounds available and proportionality.
frank murphy 123
Sorry this is confusing, I have a PCN I paid the PCN for the parking on the pavement fine of £130 , there is a second part to the PCN for removal and disposable of vehicle and storage I assume as well, this is nearly 2000 pounds. I had 21 days to pay this or my car would be disposed of I am out of time the 21 days have passed I only got to Bournemouth last weekend, and the pcn was issued in early November
hcandersen
Date of issue/posting of NTO? Just tell us if you cannot post doc.
frank murphy 123
I received the Pcn on the 19 November with the removal and disposal of vehicle 21 days which has now passed. I cant post anything I would prefer to be anonymous,
peterguk
QUOTE (frank murphy 123 @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 21:09) *
Sorry this is confusing, I have a PCN I paid the PCN for the parking on the pavement fine of £130


Date of PCN?

Date paid?

Method of payment?
frank murphy 123
Hi
I received two pcn the first for parking with two wheels on the pavement on the 16th November which I paid by credit card on the 18 November then I got the second pcn for the removal and disposal of vehicle, I am out of the 21 days timeline to do anything.
hcandersen
If you won't help us, how are we to help you!

If your car has been removed but not collected, then you have a NTO.

We want the date of issue of the NTO.

Don't tell us 21 days, there's no such provision for a parking PCN.

So..date of issue of the NTO is?
frank murphy 123
Hi
The letter says pcn it was sent to my house, I dont have a nto,
peterguk
QUOTE (frank murphy 123 @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 21:24) *
I received two pcn the first for parking with two wheels on the pavement on the 16th November which I paid by credit card on the 18 November


Full amount paid within 2 days? No discount?
hcandersen
As far as I'm aware, a vehicle may only be removed if a PCN has previously been served.

So how can you have a removed vehicle and a PCN by post.

You won't post.

I won't guess.

Impasse.
frank murphy 123
Hi
I received the second NTO on the 19 November telling me to pay the removal and disposal fees and collect my car within 21 days or it would be destroyed, the first i read on the 16 November it had been sent to me 5 weeks before to my home address in Bournemouth I paid the first NTO
peterguk
QUOTE (frank murphy 123 @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 21:45) *
Hi
I received the second NTO on the 19 November telling me to pay the removal and disposal fees and collect my car within 21 days or it would be destroyed, the first i read on the 16 November it had been sent to me 5 weeks before to my home address in Bournemouth I paid the first NTO


You're not making sense. You said earlier you received a PCN for parking on pavement. I asked date of PCN. You said 16th November. Which you paid on 18th November.
cp8759
Take a photo of the paperwork and upload it. You're just causing confusion by trying to explain documents you don't understand.
frank murphy 123
Hi
I received a pcn on the 22 October, I did not see the pcn but there is a photo on my car, I received a nto in November as as I had not responded to the pcn, as I had not seen the pcn, I paid this nto i thought my car had been stolen until I received a second on the 23 of November which I just read last Saturday as it was sent to my home address, the second nto is for nearly 2000 pounds,

my car was towed ed on the 24 November so why it took the council a month to tell me my car was impounded I don't know.
peterguk
QUOTE (frank murphy 123 @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 22:10) *
Hi
I received a pcn on the 22 October, I did not see the pcn but there is a photo on my car, I received a nto in November as as I had not responded to the pcn, as I had not seen the pcn, I paid this nto i thought my car had been stolen until I received a second on the 23 of November which I just read last Saturday as it was sent to my home address, the second nto is for nearly 2000 pounds,

my car was towed ed on the 24 November so why it took the council a month to tell me my car was impounded I don't know.


Geez. Another layer of wrapping to reveal more of the (real) story. So the PCN was not dated 16th November rolleyes.gif

Post up what documents you have.
stamfordman
Seems straightforward to me.

PCN 22 Oct, car towed.
NTO 19 ? Nov, paid
Letter demanding storage/tow fees, ? Nov.

If the council can set debt recovery in motion for tow, storage and car disposal fee then OP obviously has a big problem unless it's paid. and then there's the ownership issue.

OP - if you have a camera phone take pics of everything. You can email to me and I'll post them for you.
frank murphy 123
Hi Peter

I do appreciate everyone is trying to help, the date the council send me the nto and the date I read the nto are different as I work in London and live in Bournemouth and when I get home I read my post,

I have as cp recommended emailed my insurance company and told the insurance company the car was impounded, if i going to get crucified by the insurance company there is not much i can do about it now,

I think the council have disposed of my car I will await the next letter from the council, thank you to everyone for taking your time to respond to someone who is stressed, I have done the right think, informed the insurance company hopefully i won't be in too much trouble.

I have told the insurance company my car has been found, I will phone the council this Thursday.

At the moment the insurance company owns the car I am sure this week will be stressful.



cp8759
I suggest you show us the documents rather than just wait for the next letter, or you will likely end up having to pay £2,000, which I imagine you don't have spare.

Just cover the name and address, take a photo and upload it.
hcandersen
You have been told that current ownership of the car is irrelevant, yet you mention it again. It could be Father Christmas for all the regs care.

The only issue regarding liability for 'relevant charges' is ownership on the date of the contravention.

And this was you.

And if you won't post docs - suitably redacted and therefore privacy issues do not apply - then I don't see how we can help.
Incandescent
Until the OP starts to tell us all and to post the documents, suitably redacted, there is nothing we can do except say "good luck".
Neil B
Ok I apologise for my earlier presumption about your insurance arrangements.

You are facing various bills of hundreds and some thousands.
You are, imho, in the right place for the best possible advice ---- from members giving up their seasonal holiday
time to try to help you. I've never seen anyone get this much attention, from so many, at this time of year.

We get that you're stressed but, imo, you've reached the point of disrespecting people trying to help you, by not
complying with one simple request.
In short (and I've had to edit this several times to tone it down) 'get a grip'.

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 21:56) *
Take a photo of the paperwork and upload it. You're just causing confusion by trying to explain documents you don't understand.

QUOTE (Incandescent @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 22:46) *
post the documents,

QUOTE (hcandersen @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 22:35) *
post docs - suitably redacted and therefore privacy issues do not apply -

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 22:31) *
I suggest you show us the documents

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 22:20) *
OP - if you have a camera phone take pics of everything. You can email to me and I'll post them for you.


QUOTE (peterguk @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 22:13) *
Post up what documents you have.


QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 19:50) *
You need to post the council paperwork

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 20:25) *
You need to show is the paperwork from the council.

QUOTE (hcandersen @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 20:45) *
why not post what you received


QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 20:58) *
Take a photo on your phone and upload to imgur.com
frank murphy 123
Hi Neil

I have an old fashioned phone and I don't have a camera otherwise I would post the documents, and I agree the kindness and generously of people trying to help a young guy on Christians eve is inspiring, and I am very grateful to everyone who took their time to respond, I will sleep better tonight knowing I have told the insurance company, I suspect the insurance company will contact next week and I will contact the council, this will cost me thousands there is nothing I can do now.

Thank for caring I wish you Merry Christmas.
cp8759
QUOTE (frank murphy 123 @ Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 23:37) *
this will cost me thousands there is nothing I can do now.

Yes there is, find a way of posting the documents. Obviously if you don't have a scanner or a smartphone this might be tricky, but you're just going to have to ask friends or family to help you post the images.
DancingDad
I am still trying to work out if there are two PCNs/NTOs involved or one?

Sequence seems clear even if dates are not.
Council finds car in contravention, PCN served.
Car removed, possibly with second PCN served ?
Council hears nothing, storage fees mount.
Council sends NTO for one PCN.
This paid.
Council sits up and thinks strange, why haven't they collected.
So sends either an NTO for second PCN plus storage fees or a demand for storage fees.
I'm a little confused why, when already lied to police and insurance about car being stolen, you paid and did not claim ground of Taken without Owner's consent.... had everything available for that to be accepted and would have killed council action stone dead, may have even got car back FOC.
Too late now and cannot advocate that sort of behavior, even if I wanted to.
And is why I wonder what else happened that we are not being told ?
PASTMYBEST
What the police will do re wasting police time or the insurance company will do re the false claim, I do not know, though I suspect that both offences would require an intent, and I cannot see one here.

As regards the car being impounded, the storage charge and PCN's £2000 by your count at the moment. I am almost certain we can at the least get this greatly reduced,



BUT WE NEED TO SEE THE DOCUMENTS TO HELP
lashes1984
When the OP reported his vehicle stolen to the Police would it not have come up on TRACE as towed and removed by the Council? Unless the OP confused matters by stating it was outside their home address in Bournemouth, when meanwhile its sitting in a council impound lot in London.

Also doesn’t the sum of £2000 seem excessive at this point? If OP had realised that the council had towed away his vehicle the same day the most that would’ve been paid is £265. Even with the full penalty of £130 in play, plus £200 removal fee and £40 storage charge daily for a month wouldn’t add up to £2000.

OP - if you can’t or won’t post docs at least provide the date and header of the document. You keep using PCN/NTO interchangeably when it might not be either and for all we know could be a bailiff notice.
Neil B
QUOTE (lashes1984 @ Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 09:40) *
£40 storage charge daily for a month wouldn’t add up to £2000.

TWO months.
lashes1984
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 13:16) *
QUOTE (lashes1984 @ Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 09:40) *
£40 storage charge daily for a month wouldn’t add up to £2000.

TWO months.


Except it’s not 2 months. OP said he was towed on 24 October and received a letter on 23 November for that amount. OP only just found out as all post is going to Bournemouth despite living in London.
Neil B
QUOTE (lashes1984 @ Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 13:28) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 13:16) *
QUOTE (lashes1984 @ Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 09:40) *
£40 storage charge daily for a month wouldn’t add up to £2000.

TWO months.


Except it’s not 2 months. OP said he was towed on 24 October and received a letter on 23 November for that amount. OP only just found out as all post is going to Bournemouth despite living in London.

Maybe.
We don't really know what he's received -- and neither does he.
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