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del herige
I have recently received a NIP. I found this forum and read all the posts. I followed all the advice and filled out a PACE statement as detailed and attached it to the NIP and sent it back via special delivery. This is the reply that I have received from the Metropolitan Police.

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Thankyou for confirming that you were the driver of vehicle xxxxxxxxxx on dd mm yy. The requirement to provide details of the driver of a vehicle at the time of an alleged offence is enshrined in primary legislation, Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, and is not subject to the PACE codes to which you refer. This was established in Mawdesley and subsequent case law.

You will shortly receive a conditional offer of fixed penalty, which will give you the opportunity to discharge your liability to conviction without the need to attend court. It will, of course, be open to you to allow the matter to proceed to court where you will have the full opportunity to put forward a legal defence.
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Am I missing something here, or have they just ignored the point of the PS. I would welcome advice on how to proceed.

Thanks


Del
hortz
QUOTE (del herige @ Tue, 4 Jul 2006 - 16:08) *
I have recently received a NIP. I found this forum and read all the posts. I followed all the advice and filled out a PACE statement as detailed and attached it to the NIP and sent it back via special delivery. This is the reply that I have received from the Metropolitan Police.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankyou for confirming that you were the driver of vehicle xxxxxxxxxx on dd mm yy. The requirement to provide details of the driver of a vehicle at the time of an alleged offence is enshrined in primary legislation, Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, and is not subject to the PACE codes to which you refer. This was established in Mawdesley and subsequent case law.

You will shortly receive a conditional offer of fixed penalty, which will give you the opportunity to discharge your liability to conviction without the need to attend court. It will, of course, be open to you to allow the matter to proceed to court where you will have the full opportunity to put forward a legal defence.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Am I missing something here, or have they just ignored the point of the PS. I would welcome advice on how to proceed.

Thanks


Del


They have completely ignored the point. You're forgetting that's 60 quid of their pension fund you're threatening to withold. They're not going to give up without at least some bluff and bullshit letters. If you're still up for the fight you should completely ignore the COFP if it is sent and let them make the next move. It could be that you'll hear nothing, or you may get a summons for speeding or for failure to furnish. You can always consider you options at that point.
del herige
Just so I get one thing straight. I appreciate that there are no guarantees here, but............

if I continue and for some unknown reason, everything that has been written on this site is not correct and the law does successfully prosecute me, what's the worst that can happen?

You have to understand that I have a certain amount of scepticism, as why doesn't everybody adopt this approach and just negate the camera threat altogether. I watched a recent TV drama in which a gentleman was selling a book that claimed it could prove that you didn't have to pay income tax. Not suprisingly, it was a scam. I appreciate that there is no monetary benefit here and the scenario is somewhat different.

do they double the points and increase the fine ?

As I am on 6 points already, a doubling of the possible 3 would then see scuppered.

Thanks

Del
Viper185
They're just calling your bluff. Ignore them ;-)
del herige
I am reading more & more posts from people who are in a similar position to myself.
That is, they have filled out the PACE statement and have received a letter back from the constabulary that doesn't actually address the PS.

Generally, the advice seems to be that this is a bluff tactic on the part of the authority and we should just ignore it. I am quite happy to do this. However, I am a little concerned. I see many posts from people in my position, but I don't see any posts from anybody who is saying that they have gone all the way and this approach has worked for them and the charge was dropped. Conversely, I don't see any posts from any disgruntled people who followed the advice to the letter and still got the points and the fine.

I guess I am looking for some kind of evidence of success or even a success/failure ratio. I fully understand there are no guarantees and it appears that there are many genuine people here, who give their personal time to help others in distress, but a few success postings would give people a great deal more confidence in the waiting game.

Also, I ask again, what is the penalty for sitting it out and going to court. Can the authorities double the points ? I'm not bothered about the money, its the points that count.

Thanks

Del
Jase00
Have a little read here:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=2566

You diddnt really think it would be so easy did you?
They are not going to roll over and give in just because you send in the PACE statement, do you properly understand the Pace statement and why its used?
You need to believe in it and be prepared to go all the way with it, there is no quick easy fix but it is your best shot, if you want to fight the ticket that is dry.gif
Viper185
I went all the way with their bluster. Reply to letters at the end of the deadlines set and soon 6 months will pass.
del herige
QUOTE
You diddnt really think it would be so easy did you?
They are not going to roll over and give in just because you send in the PACE statement, do you properly understand the Pace statement and why its used?
You need to believe in it and be prepared to go all the way with it, there is no quick easy fix but it is your best shot, if you want to fight the ticket that is


OK, so I am not naive enough to think that they will drop it straight away, but it is in my nature to be a little wary (generally, if it looks to good to be true, it isn't). Many thanks for the link to all the success stories, this is just what I was looking for.

Nobody has replied to my question about what happens if I go all the way and things don't work out. Are the authorities legally allowed to double the points and increase the fine? I understand that if it gets to court and I am not successful, I will be liable for costs, which I have no problem with. However, if they can double the points, that's a different matter.

The success stories show many people who have adopted the PACE method and have gone to court and at the last minute the case has been dropped. I do understand the basic concept of the PACE statement, however, I have one last question......

if it goes to court and they don't drop it and I attend and take the stand. If I am asked outright in court, do I own the car and was I driving at the time......................what do I say ?

Thanks

Del
Jase00
They cant increase the points ( thankfully smile.gif ) and the fine should be the same, however costs would be awarded against you but it is usually only 20 quid I think, the best bit is the cash gos to the courts and not to the scammeras fund smile.gif So its worth doing out of principal... wink.gif
bleepfreak
del herige. check out my dealings with the met: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=6250&hl=

and sit tight..........
del herige
About a month and a half ago, I received a NIP for 36mph in a 30mph zone. I found this website, took in all the advice, filled out a PACE statement and posted it special delivery mail on the 26th day. A couple of days ago, I received what looks to now be the standard "call your bluff" letter from the Metropolitan Police thanking me for me letter and that the PACE statement had no grounds and they would be going ahead and I would be receiving a COFP very shortly.

However, today I received another interesting letter from the Metropolitan Police. I can scan it at a later time if neccessary. The title is SPEED AWARENESS WORKSHOP AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO PENALTY POINTS.

It then goes on to summarise my situation and give me the normal procedure, but then it says that if I don't want to have points I can pay a £72 "fee" for the workshop instead of a £60.

I have just conducted a quick search of the website for anybody mentioning something similar and didn't come back with anything. Has anybody else received this kind of offer. Obviously, not having the points is a definite advantage, but part of me still wants to take the PS all the way just on the principal of the matter.

All thoughts on this workshop would be welcomed.

Del
/dev/null
^They offer the speeed awareness course for minor offences. 36 sounds a little high however you often get it for 32, 33 etc...
Broadsword
QUOTE
It then goes on to summarise my situation and give me the normal procedure, but then it says that if I don't want to have points I can pay a £72 "fee" for the workshop instead of a £60.


Take it.

A bird in the hand and all that, the most important thing is that you won't get any points.

Save your principles for another day.
ST24
hi,

QUOTE (del herige)
I have just conducted a quick search of the website for anybody mentioning something similar and didn't come back with anything. Has anybody else received this kind of offer.
searching the forum for "+awareness +course" should give you some hints.

not an expert, but from what i could read around here, the speed awareness course is fairly often offered (also depends on the constabulary, etc.) as an alternative to fine/points for "light" speeding offences.

feedback as to the benefit of the "course" is generally pretty poor (nice way to say that it appears to be total BS rolleyes.gif )and it is not something you are really going to get any benefit from...

the only thing it does for sure is save your points wink.gif
and potentially a lot of your time and efforts, unless you really want to fight... your call!

HTH
cheers,
jedi
FYI

Check my thread, I've had success with the MET police and PACe
Ocelot
36 in a 30 is the standard speed to produce an offer of a speed awareness course. Taking it would be the easy option - no points, no additional fine and no insurance hike. And you wouldn't be on 9 points!

On the other hand, the PACE statement apparently works well with the MET. There have been numerous examples on this board of them dropping the case before it goes to court. This is no guarantee, though.

Your call!
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