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sssammm
sorry for the long post, ive got the arseoles coming back tomorrow,

basically, i got a parking ticket, had to got abroad for a month and forgot to pay it, 15th may i get a demand from Equita for £138.15, now normally id tell them to F>O> but my wife has a very nervous disposition and she's the one thats home all day,
20th May i send them the full amount, 12th June i get a "leave us your car keys and logbook" as you havent paid parking fines letter, now i presumed it was because it had crossed in the system with my payment,
so i ignored it.
26th June a bailiff turned up and dropped a hand written letter through the letterbox, (i was in at the time, he never knocked) demanding £340.00....i was fuming, i rang his number and he tells me that i owe this money because my payment was late!!!! it actually was acknowledged by him that it was noted that they had payment 8th june, but on my bank statement it shows up on the 13thJune.

Now as far as im concerened its paid, but this pr*ck says he will go all the way for this payment including removing my cars

at no time have i received any letter or call saying my payment was late and now i owe this extra money,
i have given the local authority grief telling them i am holding them resposible as they employ this company,
i have also sent a similar letter to directors of the company, i will also do a company search and sent to directors home addresses telling them i will be in their area next week and i will be visiting them to discuss the situation.

How do i stand, and what should i do next,
i bloody well paid and these thieves are trying to rob me

thanks
sam
eddie1234567
Sssammm, was this a local authority ticket or a private parking ticket.

Which area was it in.

Did you receive a notice to owner, if it was local authority
sssammm
it was a local authority ticket, cant remember recieving any notice to owner, im not very got at opening letters,
the point is that i paid these twats and now they want more, surely this cant be done

thanks
sam
eddie1234567
Can anyone else suggest on the chances of getting monies back if the NTO wasn't legaly issued.

Sssammm, do you have any paperwork still hanging about, if not, it may be worth getting a Data Subject request to the council and asking for a copy of it to see if it has the legal wording needed, if not then it shouldn't have been issued for balif action (according to waynes postings) (don't tell the council that's why you want it, you just want a copy for your records)

Hide your car and don't let him in your house, under any circumstances: to use the loo, to call back to the office, once in they have some right of future access with or without your permission AND don't talk to him
mc9
Sam

I hate bailiffs. mad.gif

A more knowledgable member may be able to clarify my comments below.

There are two seperate issues here:
1. A parking "fine", which you have paid.
2. A demand for late payment of the fine.

The late payment demand is legitimate only if you have a contract with Equita to pay the demand.

Does such a contract exist? Did you sign any document when you paid the parking fine? If yes, did you read the document to discover any potential contractual obligations, especially in respect of late payment? You need to see that document.

The late payment demand is a civil matter between Equita and you. Equita must enforce their demand through a civil court. You could invite Equita to apply to the courts to recover the "debt" and if they do so you are then entitled to ask for the case to be heard at your local court.

If the matter gets to court then Equita must show that the contract exists, that it is fair and that the demand is proportionate. You should hope that Equita won't bother to pursue this unless there is a good chance of success.

Good luck.

mc9
sssammm
i signed nothing, got their demand and sent it back with payment,
obviously i pay too well and they want some extra wages

sam
mc9
It's good that you didn't sign anything.

Another concern is that you might have entered into an implied contract by responding with your payment. Hopefully another member will provide another opinion to clarify the situation.

If indeed you do not have a contract with Equita, then I agree with the >F>O response. Make them work for their money.

mc9
sssammm
The only contract that exists is a demand for £138 and my payment for the same amount,

if i buy a car for 5000, i dont expect the seller to demand 7000 two weeks later!

sam
LordBere
In the meantime I cannot stress enough NOT TO ANSWER THE DOOR to bailiffs. Do not leave windows open.

see excerpt I found below -

"Bailiffs have threatened to visit my home, can they do this? What powers of entry do they have? What would your advice be?"

NB. Some collection agencies will threaten to send someone to your home if you refuse to pay them the amounts they request.

This is not a bailiff, they are simply a representative of a Debt Collecting Agency and have no powers at all. You do not need to speak to them if you do not wish to.

A bailiff is someone who works on behalf of the courts. They can be used to take items from your home when you have not made a payment to one of your debts and they can also be used to repossess your home or to enforce certain arrest warrants. Here we are looking at the role of the bailiff when seizing goods.

Bailiffs can be used to seize goods for payment of arrears on all kinds of debt such as council tax arrears, child support arrears, debts in either the county court or High Court, national insurance, VAT and tax. There are several types of bailiff and it is important to find out what debt the bailiff is collecting as the rules and the law are slightly different in each case.

Before bailiffs can act they will first receive instruction by the issue of a warrant, which will specify how much you owe. How a warrant is issued and whether it can be stopped is dependant on the type of debt involved.

If the bailiff is enforcing a debt which has gone to either the county court or High Court, you can apply to the court to have the bailiff's action suspended. Where the bailiff is acting on behalf of the county court you will need to fill in an N245 - Application to Suspend the Warrant. This form can be obtained directly from your local county court or downloaded from the court service web site at www.courtservice.gov.uk. You will need to complete the form and make an offer of payment. Instructions on how to complete it are contained on the form itself. You should then send the form (along with the relevant fee) to your local county court. In the High Court you will need to apply for a Stay of Execution. Contact a Payplan advisor for further information.

If the bailiff is collecting other types of debt you should contact the creditor and ask that they withdraw the bailiff and try to come to an arrangement to pay.
What powers does the bailiff have?

You do not have to let a bailiff into your home.

Bailiffs cannot use force to gain initial entry to a property; they can only use 'peaceable means'. Walking in through an unlocked door or climbing in through a window, in such a way as long as they cause no damage, is acceptable. Forcing their way past someone at the door is not. (The only exception being that bailiffs acting for the inspector of taxes can apply for a warrant to force entry on a first visit, but this is very rare).

A bailiff who has gained peaceful entry can use force to open internal doors and cupboards, and will be able to return to the property in the future and if peaceful entry is denied they have the power to break in.

Once the bailiff has gained access they can seize any goods which belong to the debtor although there are some general exceptions: tools, goods, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary to that person for use personally by him in his employment, business or vocation' and 'such clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment and provisions as are necessary for satisfying the basic domestic needs of that person and his family'.

The bailiff is not allowed to take goods that do not belong to the debtor or are subject to hire purchase or conditional sale agreements . The bailiff can also take goods which are jointly owned by the debtor and another person, but if they are eventually sold they must pay the other person their share of the money.

If the bailiff gains peaceful entry they will make a list of all the goods that have been seized. The bailiff can remove goods immediately, and will usually do so where the goods in questions are vehicles. More commonly however, they will leave them on the premises and ask you sign a 'walking possession agreement'. A walking possession agreement means that the bailiff is now in control of the listed goods but is leaving them on the premises for you to look after and continue using. If you sign the walking possession the bailiff can usually charge an additional fee. You will have a short period of time to come to an agreement to pay the arrears (usually 5 days) before the bailiff can return with the intention of removing the goods to sell at public auction.
Complaints

Occasionally, the bailiff may do something wrong or act beyond their powers. When this happens there are various avenues for making a complaint. In the first instance, you should try complaining to the bailiff's firm. If this does not remedy the matter you can take the complaint to the creditor as the bailiff is acting as the creditors' agent. Check to see if the creditor has a formal complaints procedure and any codes of practice.

If the complaint is still not resolved you can take the matter to the bailiffs' professional or trade organisation. All have the power to discipline the bailiff including exclusion from membership and they can award compensation. If this is a route you want to pursue it may be advisable to contact your local free advice centre for assistance. You may consider taking action against the bailiff in the county court. Sometimes the issue of a Claim can prompt the bailiff into settling without the need and expense of actually having to attend court.
recycler LMAG
if you have paid the debt ie the Parking ticket, it is my understanding that the bailiff cannot return for fees alone
sssammm
IM GOING ALL THE WAY

Latest news: with massive help from another forum member im going all the way!!!

Taking advice, it turns out the charge certificate issued by romford is illegal, it has no date for the 14 day or else notice
if this is correct, i am going to bring the whole council parking dept to a standstill, they have been issuing illegal parking tickets......

Ive tended a statutory declaration to the county court stating my ticket was illegal and i want it quashed and the return of all my money and costs, the court said that everything on my papers were in order and will be getting in touch with local authority parking dept immediately, i also special delivered copy papers to the chief exec of the council, when he sees it i swear the s**t will hit the fan bigtime,

by tending a stat dec, it should keep the bailiffs away, if not, i can call the police

i actually want them to take me to court as i hope it could make a precedent, fu*k knows how much money they will have to return, but i think they will try to give me the oh ok , we'll let you off this time sh*te.....but im not having it

watch this space,

sam
eddie1234567
QUOTE (sssammm @ Tue, 4 Jul 2006 - 23:19) *
IM GOING ALL THE WAY


Nice one Sam
Jase00
Good going Sam, dont forget to get the local press involved at some point wink.gif

Jase ( your RLT friend)
sssammm
reply within 1 hour!!!!!! up yours


Dear Mr Stockman

Thank you for your e mail to the Council's Chief Executive. Mr Evans is currently out of the office but will have opportunity to read your e mail on his return.

In the meantime, I have passed your e mail to Cynthia Griffin, Group Director with responsibility for Parking, to ensure appropriate action is taken.

Yours sincerely

Gill Hiscox

Stephen Evans
Chief Executive
London Borough of Havering

stephen.evans@havering.gov.uk
0044 (0)1708 432062
sssammm
I HAVE WON ..................................PLUS LETTERS OF APOLOGY FROM BAILIFFS ON THE WAY

HAD THE DIRECTOR OF PARKING FROM THE COUNCIL ON THE FONE GROVELLING, THEY KNOW THE IMPLICATIONS IF THEY WANT TO FIGHT ME

UPDATE LATER
MANY THANKS TO WAYNE PENDLE FOR HIS GREAT KNOWLEDGE

WE CAN ALL WIN IF WE JUST PUT A COUPLE OF DAYS GRAFT INTO IT

SAM
g_attrill
Well done, great stuff! Did they admit to the problem or just say they were cancelling it out of "goodwill". You know that is telling, because there is little evidence of goodwill from council parking depts...
DW190
QUOTE (sssammm @ Wed, 5 Jul 2006 - 16:38) *
I HAVE WON ..................................PLUS LETTERS OF APOLOGY FROM BAILIFFS ON THE WAY

HAD THE DIRECTOR OF PARKING FROM THE COUNCIL ON THE FONE GROVELLING, THEY KNOW THE IMPLICATIONS IF THEY WANT TO FIGHT ME

UPDATE LATER
MANY THANKS TO WAYNE PENDLE FOR HIS GREAT KNOWLEDGE

WE CAN ALL WIN IF WE JUST PUT A COUPLE OF DAYS GRAFT INTO IT

SAM



Fantastic wav.gif

Can't wait for the update
eddie1234567
QUOTE (sssammm @ Wed, 5 Jul 2006 - 16:38) *
I HAVE WON ..................................PLUS LETTERS OF APOLOGY FROM BAILIFFS ON THE WAY

HAD THE DIRECTOR OF PARKING FROM THE COUNCIL ON THE FONE GROVELLING, THEY KNOW THE IMPLICATIONS IF THEY WANT TO FIGHT ME

UPDATE LATER
MANY THANKS TO WAYNE PENDLE FOR HIS GREAT KNOWLEDGE

WE CAN ALL WIN IF WE JUST PUT A COUPLE OF DAYS GRAFT INTO IT

SAM


Thats Brilliant. You should call them back and say if monies not recieved in 14 days then you will set Equita onto them (and you won't accept a reduced amount for early payment) bootyshake.gif
Wayne Pendle
QUOTE (g_attrill @ Wed, 5 Jul 2006 - 16:54) *
Well done, great stuff! Did they admit to the problem or just say they were cancelling it out of "goodwill". You know that is telling, because there is little evidence of goodwill from council parking depts...



Basically they've wiped the slate of £397 just like that, explanation in the post. The Council had indicated that they were very "angry" because the debt had been paid with £138 but the Bailiffs said that they were paid out of time and requested further payment. In other words, the "debt" was satisfied as far as the Council were concerned but because the Bailiffs were adding to the debt, the Council were unaware that it had been collected. The warrant of execution allows the Bailiffs to recover the debt; if they are paid and they pay the Council, then the warrant of execution is satisfied, therefore the Bailiffs cannot recover further monies unless they are in possession of another warrant of execution. I beleive there are supposed to be set charges agreed between the Bailiffs and the Council which does not appear to be the case here. In fact it stinks to high heaven which will be investigated further.

We, had filed a late statutory declaration based on the fact that Sam had attempted to pay the £40, when he received the NTO, he indicated this. He didn't receive a notice of rejection therefore was denied the right to appeal. Not only was he denied the right to appeal, he was also served fatally flawed documentation.

Credit where credit's due, The Court Service was bending over backwards to help, even offering to send/fax the Statutory Declaration to the Council that afternoon. We sent an email to the Chief executive indicating that the Court had accepted the late Stat Dec and that should the Bailiffs attempt to plunder Sam's possessions, then we would file for Harassment and that we would also apply to the County Court with whom the Bailiffs were registered, for withdrawal of their certification. This appeared to have the desired effect as having telephoned the Council again, they indicated that the Bailiff has cancelled the £397 and a letter of apology was in the post!!! They also apparently, hadn't yet received the Stat Dec, hmmm!!

The Council hinted that the penalty may go back to the NTO stage however we have made it clear on the Stat Dec that we would be filing an order for the £138 back as the documentation was unlawfully served anyway therefore there was no debt. In fact the Court itself is implicated as such. Basically the will not want it returning to Court for it will be on record that the Court was issuing warrants of execution using evidence that has been proven unlawful.

It is all too easy to get excited about the above, we must not, for as soon as an avenue opens, another closes. However what the above does demonstrate, is that we can beat these people. Much credit to Ssssam for seeing this through.

There are three grounds for being able to formulate a statutory declaration, one of those is not receiving a Notice to owner, Notice of rejection or a charge certificate. In my opinion I can tick this box without committing perjury, because the documents have not been legally served.In the words of the Chief Adjudicator of England and Wales stated in her adjudication Lukha -v- Aylesbury Vale,]

Mrs Lukha has appealed to me against that purported Notice of Rejection. However, since it does not comply with paragraph 4 it does not constitute a Notice of Rejection at all.

What remains now, is what happens to the Council Officers, whom have been merrily signing global statements of truth, informing the Northampton County Court that the documentation within has been lawfully served etc? This could well be why NPAS and PATAS haven't yet issued circulars for Lukha -v- Aylesbury vale etc. It's funny how some local authorities have been 'finding out' about this decision. tsk tsk, me thinks that things are going to get quite interesting soon, especially when we start finding those individuals from local authorities whom have committed perjury.

Good aint it.
panther12
Nice one Sam, and a fellow "shack" member to boot cool.gif
sssammm
UPDATE:

I have now recieved a letter of apology from EQUITA BAILIFFS!!!!

Here's the most incredible news, Northampton county court have just informed me that the council have decided not to contest my court action, therefore the statement i made in the action saying that the parking ticket was illegal is obviously true!!!!!!!! and are refunding all my money!!!


sam
DW190
QUOTE (sssammm @ Tue, 11 Jul 2006 - 13:40) *
UPDATE:

I have now recieved a letter of apology from EQUITA BAILIFFS!!!!

Here's the most incredible news, Northampton county court have just informed me that the council have decided not to contest my court action, therefore the statement i made in the action saying that the parking ticket was illegal is obviously true!!!!!!!! and are refunding all my money!!!


sam


It appears that one red button has been plunged and may trigger an onslaught.

I went along to the local County Court on Friday with a local Company Secretary who has filed a Statutory Declaration that a Notice to Owner has NOT been served even though a document that appeared to look like one was received. CC'd to CEO of the council and the Parking Bank.

This is one of many cases that the Company have received threats from Equita.

We'll wait for their response then deal with the rest of them.
johnjames
As this was Northampton County Court was it the NBC who issued the PCN? John
DW190
QUOTE (johnjames @ Tue, 11 Jul 2006 - 20:03) *
As this was Northampton County Court was it the NBC who issued the PCN? John


Northhampton CC issue all enforcement orders relating to parking.

Traffic Enforcement Centre
Wayne Pendle
QUOTE (DW190 @ Tue, 11 Jul 2006 - 22:08) *
QUOTE (johnjames @ Tue, 11 Jul 2006 - 20:03) *

As this was Northampton County Court was it the NBC who issued the PCN? John


Northhampton CC issue all enforcement orders relating to parking.

Traffic Enforcement Centre


Indeed they do; they backed down within two days. As they have accepted the Stat dec, Sam is now entitled to All of his money back. This time last week week he was owing 400 quid with 100 quid having been paid, now he's owes nothing and is looking forward to a cheque of £138.00.

Also the Courts and the Council still have much explaining to do.

Well done Sam for following this up.
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