Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: 109 in a motorway
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Human
Hi guys, if you get caught doing 109 mph on a motorway then there is necessary to get a solicitor, right? With police recorded you on a video while following you for a short period of time. If so can you recommend which solicitor would do the best job? What are the chances of not losing the license if you need it for your job? Any advice appreciated.
Jlc
Do they plan to plead not guilty? Or looking to tot with 12 points?

That excess is likely to be a short ban (weeks) but the bench may consider 6 points if pursuaded. There’s an argument that a ‘professional driver’ should be more aware of the consequences and impact.
Human
Does it make any chance to plead not guilty if police recorded the car on video for a short period of time while following from distance?

So being a "professional driver" makes it even worse, no matter you need the license to pay the bills?
AntonyMMM
QUOTE (Human @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 08:11) *
Does it make any chance to plead not guilty if police recorded the car on video for a short period of time while following from distance?

So being a "professional driver" makes it even worse, no matter you need the license to pay the bills?


To get a not guilty from that speed ? - not going to happen really. What would your defence be ?

But it depends on what the video shows - if it is them maintaining a steady distance behind you and travelling at 109mph then you may have nothing to argue with. If it is them travelling at that speed to catch you up with you somewhere in the distance then you might have scope to argue your speed was not as high as they allege (known as a Newton Hearing) .... so guilty to speeding but you might get them to shave a few mph off the speed. But even that may not be enough to affect the sentence by much.

Realistically at that speed, you are looking at a short ban of a few weeks - I wouldn't bother with a solicitor and save the money for the fine. Some drivers may find a short ban preferable to having six points on the licence - so decide which would work best for you and attend court, dress smart and apologise and although you don't get to choose you will have the chance to make a statement to try and steer the court towards that sentence.

As a professional driver, some courts would take the view that your licence is especially important to you so choosing to drive at that speed is not going to impress them.
Human
So if they give me a short ban then I wouldn't get any points? 6 points on my license could change the insurance significantly and the council can even revoke renewal of my taxi license for this kind of offence.

I saw something about disqualification for 7-56 days. 7 days is like a holiday or sick time. Being 56 days of work means serious financial issues.

They didn't show me the video and it all happened for a fairly short period of time. I'll have a look at the record from my dash cam, maybe it can clarify a bit.
peterguk
QUOTE (Human @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 08:42) *
So if they give me a short ban then I wouldn't get any points?


Correct. Ban or points.
gilan02
I suspect a ban on your license could change the insurance significantly.
Jlc
QUOTE (Human @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 08:11) *
Does it make any chance to plead not guilty if police recorded the car on video for a short period of time while following from distance?

Perhaps you'd like to tell us what actually happened? If it wasn't an 'exact' speed measurement then there are options, such as a Newton hearing.

QUOTE (Human @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 08:11) *
So being a "professional driver" makes it even worse, no matter you need the license to pay the bills?

What I'm saying is the bench may be less sympathetic. How would you answer the question that if your licence was so important why did you risk it with such excess?

QUOTE (gilan02 @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 08:55) *
I suspect a ban on your license could change the insurance significantly.

Indeed, a ban is still declarable (probably at renewal, but check terms) and will possibly be loaded more than 6 points.
The Rookie
A ban for a more serious offence is likely to be seen more seriously than 6 points for the lesser offence, that said I'd never underestimate the ability of a civil servant to get it all topsy turvy and treat 6 points as more of an issue than a disqualification.
Jlc
QUOTE (Human @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 08:42) *
I saw something about disqualification for 7-56 days. 7 days is like a holiday or sick time. Being 56 days of work means serious financial issues.

We have seen 6 points for such excess so a ban is not a foregone conclusion. However, a ban is quite likely, probably around 2-4 weeks.

The fine, for a guilty plea, will be around 1 week's relevant earnings plus costs of £85 and surcharge of 10% of the fine (min. £30).
666
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 09:08) *
A ban for a more serious offence is likely to be seen more seriously than 6 points for the lesser offence, that said I'd never underestimate the ability of a civil servant to get it all topsy turvy and treat 6 points as more of an issue than a disqualification.


Seen more seriously by which civil servant?
Jlc
QUOTE (666 @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 09:53) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 09:08) *
A ban for a more serious offence is likely to be seen more seriously than 6 points for the lesser offence, that said I'd never underestimate the ability of a civil servant to get it all topsy turvy and treat 6 points as more of an issue than a disqualification.


Seen more seriously by which civil servant?

I believe it's a reference to this:

QUOTE (Human @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 08:42) *
...council can even revoke renewal of my taxi license for this kind of offence.

Human
QUOTE
How would you answer the question that if your licence was so important why did you risk it with such excess?

That's the question that I asked myself so many times already and I can't come up with any reasonable answer. I just felt awful and wanted to get home. I had a miserable day and kind of felt depressed, so for a moment I kind of was careless. Or maybe I wanted to prove myself things can always become worse than they already are. I really don't know... I just feel like a complete idiot right now.

QUOTE
Perhaps you'd like to tell us what actually happened?

I just watched it. As I drove into the motorway from a junction I gradually accelerated into the quickest lane and barely a few seconds later I bypassed the police. It was on the motorway with 4 lanes when I drove past them. The police car was in the first lane, the second lane was empty, in the third lane was one car at the same time when I overtook the police. They accelerated into my speed in about 30 seconds and then it took another 30 seconds until I slowed and then they switched on blue lights and pulled me over.
I don't know how better to describe it, so just ask if you think I have missed something or I can possibly upload the video footage and send it over to you through private message.

QUOTE
Indeed, a ban is still declarable (probably at renewal, but check terms) and will possibly be loaded more than 6 points.

Will it show up on my license? I mean could they possibly find out if I wouldn't tell them? Some insurance companies even ask about awareness courses, but they can never find out unless you actually tell them, right?
Jlc
QUOTE (Human @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 11:00) *
Will it show up on my license? I mean could they possibly find out if I wouldn't tell them? Some insurance companies even ask about awareness courses, but they can never find out unless you actually tell them, right?

Yes it does show up and we don't advocate lying.

Did they say how your speed was ascertained? Sounds like a speedo follow check rather than some form of device.
Human
They told me they measured it based on their speed while they followed me, so no special device, just following me and video footage from their camera. I can assume their camera had GPS measurement of their current speed.

If they disqualify me, will it end up on my criminal record?
The Rookie
No, their camera is just a camera but it will record certain data like the Police cars speed, so if its clearly following you at a fixed distance and the speed of the Police car is 109mph, you were doing 109mph.
Jlc
QUOTE (Human @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 12:29) *
If they disqualify me, will it end up on my criminal record?

Speeding is a criminal matter but for most purposes won't give you issues known as non-recordable. Driving jobs may obviously want declaration.
Human
I wish I would know what taxi licensing thinks about it. And then whether I should spend money on a solicitor to help me in the court.

Also, do you have an idea of how much my insurance premium can go up if I have currently two years of no claim bonus?
The Rookie
The taxi licencing will work to their policy, you can request a copy of that policy by using an FOI request to the relevant council. Its unlikely that a solicitor will pay back as at that speed it is unlikely they will have any more sway than you will.

No idea, but run some dummy quotes through an online comparison site using your postcode but a different house number, made up name and a reg number for a similar car (use autotrader to find one) and it will tell you!
666
QUOTE (Human @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 14:54) *
Also, do you have an idea of how much my insurance premium can go up if I have currently two years of no claim bonus?


The usual advice is to try dummy quotes on a comparison site, with points or a ban. Don't use your real name and address.

cp8759
QUOTE (666 @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 15:12) *
QUOTE (Human @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 14:54) *
Also, do you have an idea of how much my insurance premium can go up if I have currently two years of no claim bonus?


The usual advice is to try dummy quotes on a comparison site, with points or a ban. Don't use your real name and address.

I've tried dummy quotes with my real details countless times, never had an issue. When you pursue a dummy quote you are not representing to anyone that the details submitted are true (because you're not agreeing to buy any policy so there's no contract of insurance).
Logician
I think what can be a problem is if their system remembers previous quotes requested and then there is a query about how the disqualification you mentioned previously now seems to have disappeared, or something like that.
cp8759
QUOTE (Logician @ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 16:20) *
I think what can be a problem is if their system remembers previous quotes requested and then there is a query about how the disqualification you mentioned previously now seems to have disappeared, or something like that.

That's why there's an edit quote button. The details submitted at the time of the quote you go ahead with form part of the contract of insurance, quotes you did not go ahead with do not. Worse comes to the worst and they ask, you just say "well my mate told me that this offence and that offence would have such and such an effect on premiums, I wanted to see if it was true so I tried some dummy quotes. But obviously the details I submitted to buy my actual policy are accurate, if you want to check my licence this is my licence number and this is the DVLA access code you can use".

But I very much doubt this ever happens, and in the event of a claim they will want to confirm licence details anyway.
The Rookie
Having had a nighmare sorting out issues after my daughter mis entered a claim date on a comparison site quote, I’d say that was overly optimistic verging on BS. We had to sort it out on 4 car renewals and even then one threatened to decline cover on the basis of a withheld claim.
cp8759
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 17:51) *
Having had a nighmare sorting out issues after my daughter mis entered a claim date on a comparison site quote, I’d say that was overly optimistic verging on BS. We had to sort it out on 4 car renewals and even then one threatened to decline cover on the basis of a withheld claim.

I can only speak from my own experience, I've never had such a problem.
thisisntme
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 18:57) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 17:51) *
Having had a nighmare sorting out issues after my daughter mis entered a claim date on a comparison site quote, I’d say that was overly optimistic verging on BS. We had to sort it out on 4 car renewals and even then one threatened to decline cover on the basis of a withheld claim.

I can only speak from my own experience, I've never had such a problem.


Then it might have been better that you didn't respond in absolute terms as you did originally. I have heard elsewhere where people have come to grief because of a dummy quote using their real details.
OUYSINEP
With the Dummy quotes, im sure there is some FOS ruling or decision that can be relied upon if op faces a problem. Its mostly contract law stuff that gets settled pretty easily with the ombudsman office.
I mean if you enter everything truthfully just change your name and address then its almost impossible to identify you.

Ive got quotes in my name in different scenarios and not had a void or increase or letter to tell me they don't trust me no more.

It would seem unfair to just cancel or void a policy because you were messing round with the options during quotes, especially if you have option to edit a policy online anyway, and if they can trust your license details they could always ask for you to provide you license to the them or anything else for that matter.
If my insurer cancelled my full years paid for cover because I messed with quotes and never asked me to to put their minds at rest with evidence they could have asked for like a license, or letter or contract of employment, I would soo walk down the complaints process and into the realms of FOS complaint.
notmeatloaf
Insurance companies do monitor quotes for people who get one quote and subsequently get a quote with different details, and are very open about doing so if you Google. Remember they are getting absolutely huge amounts of data now people use comparison sites, and it is trivially easy to decide what sorts of changes you want to flag as potential deception.
LaughingLeaf
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Thu, 22 Nov 2018 - 18:26) *
Insurance companies do monitor quotes for people who get one quote and subsequently get a quote with different details, and are very open about doing so if you Google. Remember they are getting absolutely huge amounts of data now people use comparison sites, and it is trivially easy to decide what sorts of changes you want to flag as potential deception.



I'm sure that's true, but if you just obtain a quote by typing in details online, but with a slightly different name and address, they won't be able to tie the fake quote from the real one you subsequently get.
The Rookie
QUOTE (OUYSINEP @ Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 19:21) *
With the Dummy quotes, im sure there is some FOS ruling or decision that can be relied upon if op faces a problem. Its mostly contract law stuff that gets settled pretty easily with the ombudsman office.

There was no real issue sorting it out with each insurer, it’s just that it had to be done and was a ball ache that was the issue I was trying to help others avoid.
Human
So I finally received the letter about a week ago and I'm going to do what you've recommended - play guilty in court.

I just found two things in the letter that I want to ask about.
1. The offence charged says "Speeding - exceed 70mph motorway limit - manned equipment". I thought there will be "exceed 100mph", but I guess they don't do different offence charge for higher speeding, right?
2. There is one funny thing in the witness statement, but I guess it doesn't make any difference to the case(?) They used the word "miles" by mistake instead of metres about for how long they measured the speed while following me in "a steady even distance".

Do you want to see any pages of what I've received or is it just a waste of time since there is nothing possible to do about it?
Logician
1. The offence is exceeding the speed limit, same charge for whatever speed.

2. If you go to court over an obvious error in the witness statement, the officer will be called as a witness and simply apologise for the error and correct it.
Steve_999
QUOTE (Logician @ Sat, 22 Dec 2018 - 20:01) *
. . . . .

2. If you go to court over an obvious error in the witness statement, the officer will be called as a witness and simply apologise for the error and correct it.


And, if found guilty, you will be paying the costs for having the occifer at court.
cp8759
QUOTE (Steve_999 @ Sat, 22 Dec 2018 - 20:05) *
And, if found guilty, you will be paying the costs for having the occifer at court.

Not quite, you'd pay the standard CPS fee of £620, nothing is paid in respect of police officers giving evidence in an official capacity, CPS rules actually forbid this.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.