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FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
Gringott
I recently received a PCN in a car park from my local council. I park in the same car park every day and pay for parking via the RingGo app. There is pay and display but I never have any coins on me, hence using the app. A few weeks ago I parked as usual at around 9.00am. For some reason on this day I could not obtain a data signal on my phone so I walked to my office where I arrived at just before 9.30am. Once I had wifi I paid the £5.00 on the app and bought parking for the day.

when I returned to my car in the evening I had a PCN. I had paid for the day at 9.29am and the PCN had been issued at 9.26am with my car having been observed with no valid ticket from 9.16am to 9.26am.

I appealed the PCN which was unsuccessful as ultimately I did not have a valid ticket at the time the PCN was issued so I paid the "discounted" £30.00 penalty.

As the £5.00 I had paid in good faith for the day's parking and I was not aware I had been issued with a PCN at the time I paid, I wrote to the council and requested a refund of the £5.00 paid. this was on the basis that if they did not accept that the £5.00 paid as parking for the day then it should be refunded as they would not be entitled to keep the payment made and the penalty.

I swiftly received a response saying that as the PCN had been issued correctly, no refund is due in this instance.

Purely in principle, if I can I want to take this further. I just cannot see how in this set of circumstances they can justifiably keep the payment I made for the day and the penalty?
flexeh
For forum regulars - Doesn't the 10 minute rule apply on council car parks? if so shouldnt it have been issued at 09:27 not 26.

Im my opinion they cannot charge you for the parking as well as a PCN, should refund. IF it turns out the 10 min rule does apply i would fight the whole thing. Nothing to lose
hcandersen
You were issued with a PCN for being parked at the time of contravention not having paid to do so.

You remained in the car park. You were therefore obliged to pay to park.

A penalty charge is not a downpayment on the parking charge.

Imagine this alternative:
You park.
You don't pay.
You get a PCN.
This is cancelled, for example using discretion. This cancels the penalty NOT your liability at the time to have paid for parking.

What would you do if the authority then demanded the parking charge?

Or perhaps...
You park but not wholly within bay markings.
You pay.
You receive PCN for parking improperly which you pay.

Would you think you're due a refund of your parking charge?

As a matter of principle...you were in the wrong. It happens.

stamfordman
QUOTE (flexeh @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 08:33) *
For forum regulars - Doesn't the 10 minute rule apply on council car parks? if so shouldnt it have been issued at 09:27 not 26.

Im my opinion they cannot charge you for the parking as well as a PCN, should refund. IF it turns out the 10 min rule does apply i would fight the whole thing. Nothing to lose


? 10 min rule apples to time after expiry of time.

The PCN seems to have been correctly served. The parking session was bought after the PCN was served. Presumably the challenge was about the failure of the data signal and the session starting just after the PCN time but council didn't buy it and PCN paid. They do not refund parking charges in these cases - having a PCN does not also buy subsequent parking time.

Gringott
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 08:40) *
You were issued with a PCN for being parked at the time of contravention not having paid to do so.

You remained in the car park. You were therefore obliged to pay to park.

A penalty charge is not a downpayment on the parking charge.

Imagine this alternative:
You park.
You don't pay.
You get a PCN.
This is cancelled, for example using discretion. This cancels the penalty NOT your liability at the time to have paid for parking.

What would you do if the authority then demanded the parking charge?

Or perhaps...
You park but not wholly within bay markings.
You pay.
You receive PCN for parking improperly which you pay.

Would you think you're due a refund of your parking charge?

As a matter of principle...you were in the wrong. It happens.


I am pleased to say that I haven't received that many PCN's in my time, however when I have, I have never been asked to pay for parking for the time that parking had not been purchased and which resulted in the PCN.
peterguk
QUOTE (Gringott @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 08:49) *
I have never been asked to pay for parking for the time that parking had not been purchased and which resulted in the PCN.

Nor will anyone else.
Gringott
Thanks for all your responses but I still felt, despite all the analogies that I should not be charged for the parking if it wasn't accepted as such and that the council were not entitled to keep both the penalty AND the amount paid for parking.

I therefore wrote again and I am pleased to say, this is the response I received:

Dear Mr xxxxxx

Thank you for your further email received on 8th November 2018.

I can confirm we have now processed your refund of £5.00 to your card ending xxxx for the late payment on 08/10/2018. The funds should reach your account within 3-5 working days.

Please accept our apologies for the confusion earlier, this was looked into again and then authorised.

We trust this is of some assistance.

Kind regards,
peterguk
QUOTE (Gringott @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 23:18) *
Thanks for all your responses but I still felt, despite all the analogies that I should not be charged for the parking if it wasn't accepted as such and that the council were not entitled to keep both the penalty AND the amount paid for parking.

I therefore wrote again and I am pleased to say, this is the response I received:

Dear Mr xxxxxx

Thank you for your further email received on 8th November 2018.

I can confirm we have now processed your refund of £5.00 to your card ending xxxx for the late payment on 08/10/2018. The funds should reach your account within 3-5 working days.

Please accept our apologies for the confusion earlier, this was looked into again and then authorised.

We trust this is of some assistance.

Kind regards,


Lucky considering there was no obligation to refund you.

And had you not paid, i doubt very much you'd have paid the fiver as well as the penalty.
DancingDad
I'm a little gobsmacked you got a refund but well done.
There is an old adage, don't ask, don't get.
stamfordman
Well it's something, and I'm firmly in the if don't ask, don't get camp. I think you could have made a successful appeal on the PCN.
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