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lilymay
hello ,

I have just received a pcn for '99 stopped on a pedestrian crossing or crossing area marked by zigzags'
it has no evidence/ photograph attached to it it just states it has been served because the CEO believed this happened and the vehicle had driven off before the CEO has finished the pcn or was unable to serve it. This was at school time so i would certainly have been in that area but didn't park on any zig zags. not sure how i stand with this ?
lilymay
I've just looked again .. their evidence photo is of the zig zags with no vehicle parked on them and my vehicle not in the photo and then another of my car traveling in the opposite direction further up the road after the zig zags
stamfordman
If you drive away then there will often be no pics.

Post PCN and google street view of location.

Put pics on https://imgbb.com and post BBcode embed links.
lilymay
https://ibb.co/bYejtL
https://ibb.co/eEveSf
https://ibb.co/fhgKSf
https://ibb.co/fM2R7f

here are the photos smile.gif, I attached a picture of street view too the circle is where the zig zags are that i allegedly parked on and then the arrow is the rough location of where I am at the time of photo of my vehicle.

here is street view


https://www.google.co.uk/maps/uv?hl=en&...Qpx8wCnoECAAQCw
peterguk
Photos are not required. It will be your word against CEO.
lilymay
date of contravention 17/10/18
date of notice 01/11/18
peterguk
QUOTE (lilymay @ Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 19:28) *
date of contravention 17/10/18
date of notice 01/11/18 .. i make that more than 14 days?


28 days to serve a council PCN. Not to be confused with 14 days to serve a criminal NIP.
lilymay
yes looked at that just now, it still does not seem right to me ..take a photo of an empty space and some zig zags and then of a vehicle - which there is no registration either and is just driving along the road ?
DancingDad
PCN timed contravention at 08.59
What is time on the CEO photos ?
lilymay
9 and 9.03 .. another point .. the car matches mine in description but i dont know its mine ..awkward but a valid point ?
cp8759
QUOTE (lilymay @ Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 20:17) *
9 and 9.03 .. another point .. the car matches mine in description but i dont know its mine ..awkward but a valid point ?

If the CEO noted your number plate then it is prima facie evidence it's your car. You would need evidence to rebut this, for example if you could show your car was 100 miles away at the time that would be clear-cut. You say your car was in the area, so this supports the CEO's version of events.
stamfordman
You seem to concede you were on the white zig zags? If so paying the discount may well be best.
Incandescent
I think the OP is under the impression that because he drove away before a PCN was served, that this was a get-out. Unfortunately no, because the Traffic Management Act introduced the postal PCN for cases where a CEO had started to prepare a PCN, but the driver drove off before it could be served. The council will very likely refuse reps, so OP would have to take the matter to adjudication where the matter would be put to the test, and the onus would be on the OP to show he was never parked on the zig-zags.
peterguk
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 23:36) *
The council will very likely refuse reps, so OP would have to take the matter to adjudication


Question:

Can the council only do this where a PCN could not be served due to a drive off?
cp8759
QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 23:53) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 23:36) *
The council will very likely refuse reps, so OP would have to take the matter to adjudication


Question:

Can the council only do this where a PCN could not be served due to a drive off?

Your question is unclear, can the council only do what?
DancingDad
QUOTE (lilymay @ Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 20:17) *
9 and 9.03 .. another point .. the car matches mine in description but i dont know its mine ..awkward but a valid point ?

So photo timing does not contradict CEO, sometimes they do so worth checking.


@Pete
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/34...ulation/10/made
When a postal may be served. Para one, CCTV is now limited to Red Routes, Bus Stops, bus lanes and school zig zags.

peterguk
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 00:46) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 23:53) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 23:36) *
The council will very likely refuse reps, so OP would have to take the matter to adjudication


Question:

Can the council only do this where a PCN could not be served due to a drive off?

Your question is unclear, can the council only do what?


It's OK. I think i misread question.

I took the statement to mean council will refuse to allow reps to be submitted, whereas i now think the statement meant OP's version of events would not be accepted.
DastardlyDick
QUOTE (lilymay @ Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 19:17) *
hello ,

I have just received a pcn for '99 stopped on a pedestrian crossing or crossing area marked by zigzags'
it has no evidence/ photograph attached to it it just states it has been served because the CEO believed this happened and the vehicle had driven off before the CEO has finished the pcn or was unable to serve it. This was at school time so i would certainly have been in that area but didn't park on any zig zags. not sure how i stand with this ?

Removed for duplication
stamfordman
Info already in #4.

From what's posted it seems the OP knows full well they were on they zig zags. But info and note is confusing.
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE
but didn't park on any zig zags. not sure how i stand with this ?



In the circumstances you state, the council are fully entitled to serve the PCN by post. They must substantiate their claim. to the civil standard (balance of probability)


CEO notes and the photos of a car similar to yours is their evidence.



Do not think that you can just say that's not enough, because without anything on your side of the balance it probably is.


I would also point out that to make a statement knowing it to be false in representations or appeal is a criminal offence with a fine of up to 5K
Mad Mick V
OP-----you must request the CEO's notes.These are the Regs and the point I have put in bold is important:-


Penalty charge notices — service by post

10.—(1) An enforcement authority may serve a penalty charge notice by post where—

(a)on the basis of a record produced by an approved device, the authority has reason to believe that a penalty charge is payable with respect to a vehicle which is stationary in a civil enforcement area;

(b)a civil enforcement officer attempted to serve a penalty charge notice in accordance with regulation 9 but was prevented from doing so by some person; or

©a civil enforcement officer had begun to prepare a penalty charge notice for service in accordance with regulation 9, but the vehicle concerned was driven away from the place in which it was stationary before the civil enforcement officer had finished preparing the penalty charge notice or had served it in accordance with regulation 9,

and references in these Regulations to a “regulation 10 penalty charge notice” are to a penalty charge notice served by virtue of this paragraph.

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1)©, a civil enforcement officer who observes conduct which appears to constitute a parking contravention shall not thereby be taken to have begun to prepare a penalty charge notice.

Mick
DastardlyDick
QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 10:31) *
and references in these Regulations to a “regulation 10 penalty charge notice” are to a penalty charge notice served by virtue of this paragraph.

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1)©, a civil enforcement officer who observes conduct which appears to constitute a parking contravention shall not thereby be taken to have begun to prepare a penalty charge notice.

Mick

I would have thought a PCN timed at 0859, with photo's at 0900 and 0903 would satisfy that requirement.
OP, you're lucky it wasn't the BiB who spotted you!
With the evidence presented so far, the discounted penalty looks good, IMO.
Mad Mick V
QUOTE (DastardlyDick @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 10:27) *
QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 10:31) *
and references in these Regulations to a “regulation 10 penalty charge notice” are to a penalty charge notice served by virtue of this paragraph.

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1)©, a civil enforcement officer who observes conduct which appears to constitute a parking contravention shall not thereby be taken to have begun to prepare a penalty charge notice.

Mick

I would have thought a PCN timed at 0859, with photo's at 0900 and 0903 would satisfy that requirement.
OP, you're lucky it wasn't the BiB who spotted you!
With the evidence presented so far, the discounted penalty looks good, IMO.


Maybe-----but the photos don't show the OP's car. I would still check.

Mick
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