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FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
driverpete
Hi All, so awhile ago I parked on a road space, which I have previously used. I looked at the below sign which is at the start / end of the road (one way), which at the time of reading, I took that to mean that parking out of the hours was ok. I now realise that's not technically true.
I came back to my car to find a ticket. The car was parked for 5 minutes. (two blurry pics are the council). It is worth noting, there are no more signs on the road(going to double check that).
I appealed online, not only about the sign being confusing (and no extra sign stating the times). But also, how the car was only parked for 5 minutes.
I appealed on the 26th of april. I have only just got (4th oct) a response from the council saying they aren't accepting it. (below)

Is there anything more I can do? Do i wait for the formal appeal, or do I pay the half price?

"I refer to the challenge made by you in connection with the issue of the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).
Taking into account your reasons and having reviewed the facts surrounding this contravention I am of the opinion the notice was issued correctly as your vehicle was observed parked without payment of the parking charge. It is a requirement of the regulations governing this parking facility that a valid pay and display ticket is purchased and displayed clearly or that the vehicle is registered as paid for parking on the RingGo parking facility. In the case of your vehicle, it was first observed at 7:46pm without a payment for parking and again at 7:51pm when the notice was issued. In practise a period time is allowed between the time of observation and the issue of a notice, this period of time is considered sufficient for a driver to either obtain change if necessary and to purchase a pay and display ticket or pay using the RingGo facility. The time period is a grace period for this contravention, and there is no legislation with regards giving a 10 minute observation period.
The sign plate that you have included a photo of in your appeal is beyond where the vehicle was parked and therefore applies to vehicles parked beyond the point of entry. It is the driver’s responsibility to locate, check and adhere to the instructions on the pay & display machine associated with the bay in which the vehicle is parked. The machine and bay where your vehicle was parked are in place in accordance with the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions, this is a national requirement." Pictures here http://imgur.com/a/9sg02sG
Incandescent
Need to see (1) PCN, (2) GSV view, and (3) photo of sign if not on GSV if meaningful advice is to be given.

A response in October to a challenge made in April, whilst not illegal is certainly potentially unfair and prejudicial because of the passage of time. They are pushing it anyway, because they only have 6 months to issue the Notice to Owner.
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 19:57) *
Need to see (1) PCN, (2) GSV view, and (3) photo of sign if not on GSV if meaningful advice is to be given.

A response in October to a challenge made in April, whilst not illegal is certainly potentially unfair and prejudicial because of the passage of time. They are pushing it anyway, because they only have 6 months to issue the Notice to Owner.


we need to see the challenge you made and the response letter redact personal details then post ALL of the letter what you might think is standard detail could be important. They are very close to timing out, perhaps we can help them along that route
driverpete
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 20:59) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 19:57) *
Need to see (1) PCN, (2) GSV view, and (3) photo of sign if not on GSV if meaningful advice is to be given.

A response in October to a challenge made in April, whilst not illegal is certainly potentially unfair and prejudicial because of the passage of time. They are pushing it anyway, because they only have 6 months to issue the Notice to Owner.


we need to see the challenge you made and the response letter redact personal details then post ALL of the letter what you might think is standard detail could be important. They are very close to timing out, perhaps we can help them along that route


Thanks both, annoyingly I have since lost the original pcn due to the amount of time gone by. I'm just looking for my original response. But It was going on the fact of only having 5 minutes which wouldn't be enough to get change from location, and also that the sign was un clear. No further road signs on the road. Also i stated as the registered keeper and not driver (company car) There are some pictures here but im having trouble posting due to being a new poster. These are all the pictures they sent me and the picture of the sign. Sorry, I'm not sure what a GSV view is?



















cp8759
Bristol PCNs are currently invalid due to the 0870 payment number, however the delay could win on its own, see Elizabeth Kehinde v Royal Borough of Greenwich (case reference 2180261257)
publicenemyno1
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 6 Oct 2018 - 23:44) *
Bristol PCNs are currently invalid due to the 0870 payment number[/url]


Edited: Have now found the relevent case, although it seems it was rejected (won on another point though) but could have been reviewed / appealed
cp8759
QUOTE (publicenemyno1 @ Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 17:48) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 6 Oct 2018 - 23:44) *
Bristol PCNs are currently invalid due to the 0870 payment number[/url]


Edited: Have now found the relevent case, although it seems it was rejected (won on another point though) but could have been reviewed / appealed

Sorry I don't know what you're referring to.
driverpete
So the payment number looking at their bad pictures is a 0117 number not 0870 number.

The sign in my picture has now been covered up, and since this ticket bristol has been changing all of the parking charges and tariff. What do you think the best thing is to do here? Do i wait for the NTO and then appeal?
cp8759
QUOTE (driverpete @ Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 16:01) *
So the payment number looking at their bad pictures is a 0117 number not 0870 number.

I mean the payment number on the back of the PCN, the one you would call if you wanted to pay the PCN over the phone.
driverpete
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 23:13) *
QUOTE (driverpete @ Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 16:01) *
So the payment number looking at their bad pictures is a 0117 number not 0870 number.

I mean the payment number on the back of the PCN, the one you would call if you wanted to pay the PCN over the phone.


Ah ok

So I still haven't had the notice to owner yet. How long do they have to send that? Also, what is my next step in appealing this. It is interesting to note that said sign has now been removed / covered up. And alot of all the parking tariffs around bristol have been changed.
cp8759
QUOTE (driverpete @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 00:46) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 23:13) *
QUOTE (driverpete @ Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 16:01) *
So the payment number looking at their bad pictures is a 0117 number not 0870 number.

I mean the payment number on the back of the PCN, the one you would call if you wanted to pay the PCN over the phone.


Ah ok

So I still haven't had the notice to owner yet. How long do they have to send that? Also, what is my next step in appealing this. It is interesting to note that said sign has now been removed / covered up. And alot of all the parking tariffs around bristol have been changed.

They have six months from the date of the contravention, but get your V5C and check the name and address is correct (Don't assume, physically check the address that is printed on the V5C). What was the date of the contravention? They must be almost out of time by now.
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