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morph_x3me
Writing on behalf of someone

They have received 1 and then another 4 tickets for driving in a bus lane which is only a small patch on the road.

They stated that they have been using this for several years and it's never been active.

Only now they have received several notices and I'm sure there will be more as they drive through this bit almost every day.

I will upload pictures etc shortly

Location

England

https://goo.gl/maps/hrJfg6s3PCr

Date of notice 10/09 contravention date 18/08
10/09 21/08
17/09 27/08
17/09 29/08
17/09 31/08

These are the dates










PASTMYBEST
Find out how many PCN's we are talking about

List all the contravention dates

All the notice dates

And get a copy of the video and or photos of the signage as it is now
stamfordman
Dangerous to use a lane because you think it's not enforced. Is this Hillingdon or Ealing?

There's often a grace period with warning PCNs when enforcement is activated.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5571388,-0....3312!8i6656



morph_x3me
I will post all the info shortly

But it's harrow council

That's the place.

Agreed and the person who did it also agrees. But I want to know if anything can be done otherwise they'll have to bite the bullet for 3 400 quid plus
stamfordman
There is an argument that is often accepted that it be would unfair to enforce contraventions before someone was aware that they were doing wrong (ie before the first PCN).

But here this will harder if it was a deliberate decision.

The dates of the contravention and the PCNs may be important too.

Have to say that Harrow is not known for its goodwill.
PASTMYBEST
From what I can see there the signage looks deficient.
stamfordman
Well it looks clear that you can sneak up the inside and then cut through the lane... until now.

PASTMYBEST
where are all the regulatory signs, that's not one of them
morph_x3me
There are no other signs there stating times of enforcement etc. If there isn't does that not mean it's enforced 24 7?

Date of notice 10/09 contravention date 18/08
10/09 21/08
17/09 27/08
17/09 29/08
17/09 31/08

These are the dates

stamfordman
The one that's there is indeed a 24/7 one. But as PMB indicates there should a blue one that is in advance of the lane in the lead in to it. May be case for an end of lane sign too.

The PCNs look to be served in time but post all of one as there could be faults.
morph_x3me
Pics now added

morph_x3me
Anyone have an ideas as the early discount date is nearing for two of them
stamfordman
You could call and see if there are other PCNs in the pipeline.

Wait for PMB - I think he may have some wording you for about signage.

Others will want to see all of one of the PCNs.
PASTMYBEST
Day 14 is Sunday

A lot of money is at stake £325 at discount or £650 if you lose.

In the first instance I can see an argument re the signage, the white directional sign is non regulatory and the blue bus lane sign, that is regulatory is positioned and of a format that could lead you to believe that the bus lane is the left fork.

But then you recieved 2 PCN's on the 10th why then did you not check what you were doing ?

If an adjudicator applies the regulations on signage strictly then you have a good chance of winning, if they apply substantial compliance then not. Same applies with continuing contravention. You were warned on the `10th of the restriction but ignored that warning. IMO no Only the second PCN might stand to fail under continuing would be the second

Would an adjudicator find that the penalty is disproportionate? I doubt it you had a warning by way of the PCN's of the 10th
morph_x3me
So after the first pcn was received the person stopped using the lane

The contravention occurred in August but only notified on the 10th september

So the 10th was the earliest they had been informed of the contravention.

So would it be advisable to just pay. As they won't reply in the next few days anyway so the cost of two tickets will be nearlynthe same as all of them as the discounted rate.

Hard lesson learned for the person to not assume something is not enforced for this very reason
morph_x3me
Bump
cp8759
QUOTE (morph_x3me @ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 16:28) *
Hard lesson learned for the person to not assume something is not enforced for this very reason

So the person concerned was aware of the bus lane but assumed it was not enforced?
lullaby
QUOTE (morph_x3me @ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 16:28) *
So after the first pcn was received the person stopped using the lane

The contravention occurred in August but only notified on the 10th september

So the 10th was the earliest they had been informed of the contravention.

So would it be advisable to just pay. As they won't reply in the next few days anyway so the cost of two tickets will be nearlynthe same as all of them as the discounted rate.

Hard lesson learned for the person to not assume something is not enforced for this very reason


So did you pay up finally ? Were you successful in challenging your PCN ?
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