Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Conflicting PCN?
FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
doobiemcgee
Hi guys,

I got a PCN recently where I was parked on a residential street in a bay marked out with white lines suggesting you can park here at times as these bays are all along the same road with free parking all day every day, and the only controls are in place for event days. These bays were also repainted a few weeks ago.

However on this little stretch of road on the corner there are what appears to be a single yellow line which has faded across a run about 3 car lengths within the bay area, but the white line markings for the bay are new.

The street sign shows the same event day notice as it does down the entire street. However on this stretch of bays there is a restricted hours sign above the event day sign. I challenged the warden who said they can still have dual parking restrictions. However thee council yellow lines have never been repainted for years and left to fade out as shown. I have never seen a single yellow line within a white marked out parking bay. Can this even be considered legitimate?

Interestingly the council have remarked double yellow lines down the road in front of a couple other building driveways so its not like they haven't been down the road with yellow paint.

The contravention code is 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours. I was caught 17:21 to 17:24

I have removed my car from the picture to show the bay as it looked before I parked there.

Any suggestions please welcome.

angry.gif
cp8759
Show us the PCN and the council photos.
doobiemcgee
Here you go.
cp8759
show us the back of the PCN
doobiemcgee
here you go heres the back
cp8759
You have nothing to lose in asking for discretion (they will extend the discount when they reject), but both the PCN and the signage look substantially compliant.
doobiemcgee
abolsutely will ask for discretion.

Its the bit where you have a yellow line left to fade out, and the introduction of a new parking bay marked out weird. Also the old yellow line that is partially there was only ever active for this stretch about 3 cars long nowhere else.


All the other bays along the road are free as well anyway. It had been commonly known as a decommisioned yellow line as indicated by previous wardens, before the white bays were even put in a month ago.
ohnoes
The council pics conveniently don't show that there is a marked out bay in that location, exactly where the yellow line is.

Surely there can't be a marked out bay and a yellow line in play?

What happens if a permit holder parks there during event day and restricted times, can they expect to get a PCN?

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 11 Aug 2018 - 14:32) *
You have nothing to lose in asking for discretion (they will extend the discount when they reject), but both the PCN and the signage look substantially compliant.


even if there is bay markings painted in the place where the faded yellow line is?
I will post a pic of what it looks like tonight.

You can't see the bay in the warden pics.

(For clarification I live nearby and have often parked here without a PCN, our wardens are an extremely dim lot so i wouldn't be surprised if they're wrong yet again)
ohnoes
OP was parked where the green car is, as you can see there is a clearly marked bay and the yellow line seems to start in the middle of the bay and then fade away?

https://imgur.com/a/Vqrfihe
ohnoes
QUOTE (ohnoes @ Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 18:55) *
OP was parked where the green car is, as you can see there is a clearly marked bay and the yellow line seems to start in the middle of the bay and then fade away?

https://imgur.com/a/Vqrfihe



Any thoughts based on my pictures above team?
Mad Mick V
The OP should pay at the discount IMO because he will not be able to mount a defence of----the signs were confusing and misleading. Why?--because even if he was not caught by the yellow plate he has not indicated that he has a residents permit for that place. His grounds for parking there will not cut it.

That said, I cannot see how the yellow plate prohibition can be overcome by the residents plate since the hours stated are definite. In order to comply the yellow plate should state "Except Resident Permit Holders" etc etc but we have two separate signs.
Mick
cp8759
The signage is definitely not correct. ohnoes, you should get hold of the Traffic Management Order for this road, ask the Highways Department, not parking enforcement. Post a copy when you get it.
ohnoes
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 21:36) *
The signage is definitely not correct. ohnoes, you should get hold of the Traffic Management Order for this road, ask the Highways Department, not parking enforcement. Post a copy when you get it.


That is what I thought.
Let me see what I can find out from the highways dept.
ohnoes
So after I contacted the Council Highways dept requesting the TMO, they enquired as to why.
I told them I believed some signage was incorrect at a particular junction.
Lo and behold, the yellow timeplate featured in the PCN has now been removed.
I've emailed them back to check if this was done by the Council (I suspect it was).
cp8759
QUOTE (ohnoes @ Fri, 31 Aug 2018 - 10:04) *
So after I contacted the Council Highways dept requesting the TMO, they enquired as to why.
I told them I believed some signage was incorrect at a particular junction.
Lo and behold, the yellow timeplate featured in the PCN has now been removed.
I've emailed them back to check if this was done by the Council (I suspect it was).

It seems you're on the right track then.
ohnoes
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 1 Sep 2018 - 17:22) *
QUOTE (ohnoes @ Fri, 31 Aug 2018 - 10:04) *
So after I contacted the Council Highways dept requesting the TMO, they enquired as to why.
I told them I believed some signage was incorrect at a particular junction.
Lo and behold, the yellow timeplate featured in the PCN has now been removed.
I've emailed them back to check if this was done by the Council (I suspect it was).

It seems you're on the right track then.


Hopefully I get a reply with a confirmation this was an error and then OP can use it in his appeal to the adjudicator.
Barry S
As an aside, this is a new "Event Day CPZ" that Enfield have created ahead of the opening of the new Spurs stadium. There isn't a "normal" CPZ in the affected area so permit-related issues don't (currently) apply.

Notice from the London Gazette is here: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3075840
ohnoes
The council confirmed that they removed the yellow timeplate and that the time plated bay has replaced it.

OP's ticket is not valid.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.