Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Stopping In Keep Clear (school) markings
FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
CZL1972
I was horrified to get a PCN today saying I had illegally stopped on Keep Clear Markings.

The actual circumstances had me driving down a two way road that is too narrow for two cars to cross side by side due to parked cars. As there was oncoming traffic I reversed to allow this traffic to pass - just being a considerate driver - this led to me coming to a standstill for around 20 secs (as per video evidence) adjacent to some yellow School Keep Clear marking before moving forward and driving away. As I see it there are only 2 real choices here - either I reverse or the cars trying to pass do so..... and yet the council have interpreted this as me doing something wrong. Can anyone please help me with my response back as I really don't feel this is right. The Highway Code itself talks about occassionally having to reverse to allow people through and driving considerately yet it appears I am been penalised for heeding this advice.

Many thanks to those who take the time to reply
peterguk
Post all sides of PCN and link to video. If video confirms what you say it should be an easy win.
CZL1972
Thanks...I've uploaded the images.

To view the video evidence you need to go to Barnet Council's website https://parkingservices.itsvc.co.uk/barnet/notices/ and type in reg no LC17OJX and PCN no AG90622153

stamfordman
Doesn't look that good for you I must say when camera looks up the road...




nextdoor
Where's the on-coming traffic?
CZL1972
The oncoming traffic was beyond the car ahead which is not in shot - but I assure it was there


The oncoming traffic was beyond the car ahead which is not in shot - but I assure it was there


The oncoming traffic was beyond the car ahead which is not in shot - but I assure it was there
cp8759
You really should have continued to where the orange van was parked on the left, and any oncoming traffic would have still had space to get round you in the bays on the right. I'm afraid it doesn't look good at the moment, upload the PCN (all sides of all pages).
stamfordman
QUOTE (CZL1972 @ Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 20:02) *
The oncoming traffic was beyond the car ahead which is not in shot - but I assure it was there


The oncoming traffic was beyond the car ahead which is not in shot - but I assure it was there


The oncoming traffic was beyond the car ahead which is not in shot - but I assure it was there



We believe you, three times. But it looks like you were excessively cautious to the point where a van tries to pass you going your way.
cp8759
This frame of the video does support the OP's view, but it's going to be tough to show that it was "necessary" to stop on the keep clear markings.

CZL1972
sorry for posting 3 times!! an error - yes a van did try to pass but not necessarily because of excessive caution but most likely because prior to doing so he would not have had clear vision of what was ahead. Ultimately if I am a more considerate and patient driver than another one should I be penalised for that - if anything you could argue the reverse
cp8759
You could try making the argument that the road ahead was obstructed, but you'd have to take this to the tribunal (the council will never accept it) and your chances are, at best, 50/50. Given you'd have to forgo the discount, you need to think carefully about what you want to do.
CZL1972
Are you suggesting I simply pay the fine?

Even from the video it is reasonably clear that I only reversed because I was trying to make a clear route for the cars that were shortly about to need to pass rather than create a bottleneck further up the road. Even if you take the view that I am driving with caution (which I would assume is advised in the Highway Code) it is evident that I was not seeking any favour by coming to a stop around the road markings which are presumably there not to stop drivers who are passing through the road as I was from allowing others to pass but to prevent parents/delivery people etc from actually parking - and by parking I mean stopping a vehicle and getting out - by a school which may cause a hazard to young children who may be walking in the area. This was clearly not the case however you view the video.
stamfordman
There are at least two passing places I can see ahead of you and car driving ahead of you in your direction. Were you aware of the zig zags?
Incandescent
Personally, I find this case quite disgusting and a clear case of money-grubbing. Since when have normal manoeuvers in everyday traffic situations been subject to penalties, for heavens sake ! If the council remain obdurate, I would take this to adjudication. Yes, the discount is foregone, but at least the case will be heard by somebody with no interest in the cash. What a venal and rapacious council this is !
CZL1972
No to be honest I was not aware of the zig-zags, but I suspect that is not a very good defence - do you think this is something to mention in the letter. I am really loathe to be financially penalised for this - I get it when people clearly do things that contravene road rules but in this case as I see it all I am doing is attempting to be a good citizen by getting out of the way so as not to cause a bottleneck, nothing more nor less
cp8759
QUOTE (CZL1972 @ Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 23:11) *
No to be honest I was not aware of the zig-zags, but I suspect that is not a very good defence - do you think this is something to mention in the letter. I am really loathe to be financially penalised for this - I get it when people clearly do things that contravene road rules but in this case as I see it all I am doing is attempting to be a good citizen by getting out of the way so as not to cause a bottleneck, nothing more nor less

Then you should take it to the tribunal and argue it on that basis, in which case a personal hearing might be best.
DancingDad
The problem I have is that the video not only gives no indication of oncoming traffic...except a very brief glimpse at the start that might be, it seems to show the road ahead is clear.
This puts you on the back foot.
However, you are adamant in your story and others, even the van, do not simply swan past you, which does indicate a blockage.
Stopping in the event of traffic is an exemption though it is phrased as "a vehicle which is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond the driver’s control or which has to be stopped in order to avoid injury or damage to persons or property;"
In the strictest of senses, not beyond your control as there does seem to be passing spots ahead but you were there, not us, it is your credibility that an adjudicator will ultimately be making a decision upon.
Another plus point is that no one got out and there seemed no other reason to stop. Likely to be asked if you were using a mobile, setting sat nav, finding the pound coin you had dropped.... myriad of reasons why people stop that are not exemptions.
It has to be your choice, it is your money, all we can do is point out what can win and where pitfalls are.

I am thinking of another recent case where a van was similarly blocked. OP made a request under GDPR for the video before and after. This may support your story so is worth doing.
In that case, council actually seemed to have deleted the data despite the request, which aids the case tremendously.
diversity
I don't know how any of these things work like the good people on this forum that offer advice, but my thoughts are that common sense would mean they'd need to look at a longer snippet of the footage to determine whether what you say actually happened. The snippet they've taken looks to me like they've deliberately cut it to make it look bad for you!! So a case of the truth but not the whole truth. Surely they'd need to extend the clip if you appealed against the charge!!!?!!!?????

Hope you sort it out!
PASTMYBEST
To me you stopped to allow an oncoming vehicle to proceed, As DD reason beyond your control. You see a vehicle stopped further along facing an oncoming vehicle, some one has to give way.
You might have been over cautious, but that's not a contravention two other vehicles also had to stop.

I would take this all the way. Post the PCN lets check that for errors a s well
CZL1972
PCN attached

I am interested in knowing how to word my response letter, any thoughts about what points I should focus on to stand the best possible chance?
Incandescent
QUOTE (CZL1972 @ Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 20:49) *
PCN attached

I am interested in knowing how to word my response letter, any thoughts about what points I should focus on to stand the best possible chance?

I see no PCN
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.