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FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
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lab211
So I got a PCN a while back and decided to challenge it and sent back a representation against it. I assumed they would just reject it and was expecting a notice back to that effect, but it has been nearly three months since I sent that back and I haven't heard anything. The PCN was in a hire car and reissuing the ticket in my name took them ages so I assumed they would be slow too but even so I was starting to get worried and was going to try contact them but of course they have no phone number.

Anyway today I received a "Charge Certificate" with a 50% uplift on the original amount and no mention of ways to challenge. I was planning on taking this to a tribunal to challenge but what can I do now? I assume they will say they did send out a notice of rejection but I never received anything.
cp8759
Did you receive your own Notice to Owner in your own name?
John U.K.
You will probably be able to re-set this with the help of the experts here when you get the OfR (Order for Recovery).
While you are waiting for the experts to chip in please
1) Urgently put up a timeline with all dates, as dates govern deadlines.
Date of alleged contravention,
Date of of original PCN
Date of re-issued PCN
Date of your challenge.
Date of Charge Certificate

2) Post here copies of all paperwork received from and sent to Council, with a GSV link to the location.
For how to do it, Try this:

Do not attach docs/photos, but use this method:

Photo or scan. see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858&st=0
for how to do it. I use Tinypic for stage 2 with no problems. Thera are other sites, such as Flickr (where the BBcodes are concealed behind the curly arrow (click on it) for sharing), which enable you to paste the BBCodes into your post here.
STAGE 1 takes care of resizing. If you use Tinypic for Stage 2, on the left each image in Tinypic is a list of links. Highlight and copy the entire link 'for forums' from the list for each image - beginning with IMG and ending /IMG (include all the square brackets [ ] ), and paste each link into your post. Each copied and pasted link will embed a thumbnail link in your post.

Using the attachment method is not advised as it means quickly running out of attachment space.

Redact/obscure name, address, PCN number and reg.mark.
LEAVE IN all dates/times; precise location, Contravention code and description.
lab211
Hi,

Thanks for the quick response.

The timeline is as follows:

Date of contravention: 26/01/18
Date of original PCN: 02/02/18
Date of PCN in my name: 09/03/18
Date representation sent: 28/03/18
Date representation signed for: 03/04/18
Date of Charge Certificate: 18/06/18

Location: https://goo.gl/maps/itbGcmJKPvn

Scans:






PASTMYBEST
You need to deal with the charge certificate first and there is only one sure way. Wait for the next document an Order for recovery. This will include a form enabling you to make a statutory declaration that You made representations in time but received no response. What will happen then is the TEC will order the CC revoked and the council should refer to the adjudicator for what happens next. The sometimes will ask you to re send your reps. Do not do so without coming back here. You will want to add a bit
lab211
Ok thanks that is somewhat reassuring but I am still quite nervous of this. So I should expect the Order of Recovery in about two weeks or are they normally slow sending those out too?

Also what exactly does the Order of Recovery mean, just that they can from that point they can get bailiffs involved but I can still stump up the £195 charge or make the witness statement?
Incandescent
At the OfR stage you can still make a payment, (I think they add on £8 to the £195), but it will be best for you to submit a Witness Statement (or Statutory Declaration if the PCN isn't for parking) so the process gets reverted to the Notice to Owner stage whereupon you can submit reps again, or pay, of course. The correct forms will be included with the OfR. Why there are two separate statement methods only TEC can tell you, for me it is a nonsense !

Only if you totally ignore the OfR will bailiffs eventually turn up. The OfR comes from the council, but they can only send it out when authorised by TEC.
Neil B
QUOTE (lab211 @ Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 22:13) *
Ok thanks that is somewhat reassuring but I am still quite nervous of this.

The most likely way for something to go wrong is if you do anything other than members have advised.

There are, however, some checks you can make for peace of mind. I won't mention them yet as I don't
want you jumping the gun.

So some back when you get the OfR --- or --
Come back if you don't receive it by, say, 10th July.

---------


QUOTE (lab211 @ Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 22:13) *
Also what exactly does the Order of Recovery mean, just that they can from that point they can get bailiffs involved

No. The OfR gives you plenty of time to respond before anything like that can happen.
lab211
Thanks for the advice, got me in a bit of a panic when I opened it.

I'll be back when I receive the Order of Recovery or if I don't hear back from them.
Neil B
icon_thumleft.gif
lab211
I am still waiting on the Order of Recovery, I'll give it another day or two but what can I do to chase if nothing shows?
Incandescent
QUOTE (lab211 @ Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 19:41) *
I am still waiting on the Order of Recovery, I'll give it another day or two but what can I do to chase if nothing shows?

Neil B will give you chapter and verse being much more expert than me on these things, but you contact the TEC giving PCN details to find out if the debt has been registered by the council. Once TEC has registered the debt, the council can issue the OfR, so you know it is imminent. They cannot issue an OfR without this registration at TEC.

Neil B
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 22:07) *
you contact the TEC giving PCN details to find out if the debt has been registered by the council. Once TEC has registered the debt, the council can issue the OfR, so you know it is imminent. They cannot issue an OfR without this registration at TEC.

<<< Just that.

And, as an OfR gives you 21 days to act, you can just phone TEC every couple of weeks as above.
0300 123 1059

But do come back if it drags on.
lab211
Thanks for all the advice so far, the Order of Recovery finally showed up.

Just want to make sure I fill it out correctly and I am a little confused by the wording where it needs witnessing.

Signature I assume is mine and dated when I sign.
I am not sure what "declared at" would be, is that my address or the time?
"Before me at" I assume is the address of where the witnessing took place, should it also include the witnesses name or does that go below the title?


Neil B
QUOTE (lab211 @ Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 20:57) *
Thanks for all the advice so far, the Order of Recovery finally showed up.

Just want to make sure I fill it out correctly and I am a little confused by the wording where it needs witnessing.

Signature I assume is mine and dated when I sign.
I am not sure what "declared at" would be, is that my address or the time?
"Before me at" I assume is the address of where the witnessing took place, should it also include the witnesses name or does that go below the title?



Those sections are for the person taking your oath.

DO NOT sign and date until told to.

QUOTE (lab211 @ Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 20:57) *
I am not sure what "declared at" would be, is that my address or the time?

Neither; the Court or solicitor's office.
hcandersen
the Order of Recovery finally showed up’

And its date of issue is???? And it states that you have *** days in which to submit your declaration?

OP, this is standard stuff, I know it can be stressful but it really is standard procedure carried out hundreds of times a day across the country, so don’t get concerned.

Our posters will guide you.

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...rcement-process
lab211
It is dated 20/07/18 and states I have 21 days to either pay or make a declaration.

My neighbour who is a solicitor was going to witness it for me but he wasn't sure how to fill it out, so does that mean he fills both the declared at and before me at sections with his home address?
Neil B
QUOTE (lab211 @ Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 23:35) *
My neighbour who is a solicitor was going to witness it for me but he wasn't sure how to fill it out, so does that mean he fills both the declared at and before me at sections with his home address?

I'm a bit taken aback by the question, not least because I don't know the answer and now I'm not sure about my
previous answer.

Be aware not all solicitors can take oaths: Perhaps your neighbour isn't qualified.

It's free and simple at County Court, normally by appointment.
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 08:38) *
QUOTE (lab211 @ Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 23:35) *
My neighbour who is a solicitor was going to witness it for me but he wasn't sure how to fill it out, so does that mean he fills both the declared at and before me at sections with his home address?

I'm a bit taken aback by the question, not least because I don't know the answer and now I'm not sure about my
previous answer.

Be aware not all solicitors can take oaths: Perhaps your neighbour isn't qualified.

It's free and simple at County Court, normally by appointment.



I think all solicitors can witness Neil.


QUOTE
In English law, a Commissioner for Oaths is a person appointed by the Lord Chancellor with power to administer oaths or take affidavits. All practising solicitors have these powers but must not use them in proceedings in which they are acting for any of the parties or in which they have an interest. ... S



post up the whole of the document. My understanding is that it is a tick box, sign it in front of the commissioner, they sign then send, but lets check
lab211
My neighbour is a corporate in-house solicitor so I don't think he is used to this kind of stuff, I am trying to get hold of the county court to see about doing it there in case.

This is the full form

cp8759
Form PE3 is owned by Her Majesty's Courts and Tribunals Service and can be downloaded here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/...y-charge-notice

I'm not sure why Lambeth feel the need to send an amended form of their own concoction, but if you use the original HMCTS form you can't go wrong. That page also gives you the official guidance notes. Any solicitor can witness a statutory declaration providing they are authorised to practice, i.e. they hold a current, valid authorisation from the Solicitor's Regulatory Authority. The address in the "at*" address is simply the address of wherever your neighbour witnesses you sign the form, I would suggest his address would be the most appropriate choice (because in the vanishingly unlikely event that the court write to him to check he exists and he is in fact a solicitor, he'll receive the letter and will be able to reply / give his SRA authorisation number).
lab211
I went to the County Court in the end just to be sure, so thanks for directing me there I didn't know you could get it done there.

I now have the response back from Lambeth, they have now directed me to submit an appeal to the ETA. I was going to submit an appeal on the basis that the discount period is wrong (21 days instead of 14) and statement about charge certificate being wrong. Does that sound ok? Anything else I need to be aware of?
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (lab211 @ Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 23:38) *
I went to the County Court in the end just to be sure, so thanks for directing me there I didn't know you could get it done there.

I now have the response back from Lambeth, they have now directed me to submit an appeal to the ETA. I was going to submit an appeal on the basis that the discount period is wrong (21 days instead of 14) and statement about charge certificate being wrong. Does that sound ok? Anything else I need to be aware of?


You need to post these documents
lab211
The original documents are at the top of the thread, the latest letters are below:





Thanks
Enceladus
Lambeth haven't advised correct procedure. You shouldn't have to make an appeal submission to the Independent Adjudicator at the London tribunals as yet. The ball is now with Lambeth, they can either cancel the PCN or they can refer the case to the Adjudicator for 'direction on how to proceed'. Given the circumstances the Adjudicator would normally direct that the matter be held as an appeal. Assuming they do refer, then the London Tribunals would inform you and invite you to make a submission. Lambeth have no power to preempt the Adjudicator.
lab211
QUOTE (Enceladus @ Sat, 25 Aug 2018 - 02:39) *
Lambeth haven't advised correct procedure. You shouldn't have to make an appeal submission to the Independent Adjudicator at the London tribunals as yet. The ball is now with Lambeth, they can either cancel the PCN or they can refer the case to the Adjudicator for 'direction on how to proceed'. Given the circumstances the Adjudicator would normally direct that the matter be held as an appeal. Assuming they do refer, then the London Tribunals would inform you and invite you to make a submission. Lambeth have no power to preempt the Adjudicator.


So what should I do?
cp8759
QUOTE (lab211 @ Sat, 25 Aug 2018 - 11:19) *
QUOTE (Enceladus @ Sat, 25 Aug 2018 - 02:39) *
Lambeth haven't advised correct procedure. You shouldn't have to make an appeal submission to the Independent Adjudicator at the London tribunals as yet. The ball is now with Lambeth, they can either cancel the PCN or they can refer the case to the Adjudicator for 'direction on how to proceed'. Given the circumstances the Adjudicator would normally direct that the matter be held as an appeal. Assuming they do refer, then the London Tribunals would inform you and invite you to make a submission. Lambeth have no power to preempt the Adjudicator.


So what should I do?

For the sake of getting this dealt with you should file an appeal with the tribunal. While Enceladus is correct in saying that technically you don't *have to* do this, there is no benefit in dragging this on for longer than needed. Or you can pay the discounted charge. But don't do nothing, or you'll end up with another charge certificate.

We haven't seen your representations to the council so can't say how strong your case is, show us a copy.
Enceladus
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 25 Aug 2018 - 11:33) *
Or you can pay the discounted charge. But don't do nothing, or you'll end up with another charge certificate.

How so? Lambeth can't serve another Charge Cert, they have no power. They can only cancel the PCN or refer the case to the Adjudicator.

Playing off-piste usually ends badly. So I'd be inclined to follow the correct procedure and wait and see if Lambeth do refer and how quickly.

Paragraph 7 (11) of Schedule 1 of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 applies.
7 (11) Where a declaration has been served under sub-paragraph (2)(b) <---- applies to you or (c) above, the enforcing authority shall refer the case to the traffic adjudicator who may give such direction as he considers appropriate.

The OP has not been offered another chance to pay the PCN at the discount rate so he might as well submit an appeal if Lambeth do refer. But certainly don't pay at this stage.
cp8759
QUOTE (Enceladus @ Sat, 25 Aug 2018 - 12:22) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 25 Aug 2018 - 11:33) *
Or you can pay the discounted charge. But don't do nothing, or you'll end up with another charge certificate.

How so? Lambeth can't serve another Charge Cert, they have no power. They can only cancel the PCN or refer the case to the Adjudicator.

The latest correspondence from the council says pay or appeal. Regardless of whether they have the necessary powers, they will purport to service a charge certificate, and in due course they will purport to serve an order for recovery. If the OP ignores that too (following your philosophy that unlawful actions of the council can be simply ignored) then the bailiffs will turn up, and the OP is unlikely to have much success with persuading the bailiff that the whole thing is illegal and the bailiff has no lawful authority to seize any property, the bailiff will end up thinking the OP's one of those FMOTL nutjobs and will carry on with enforcement regardless.
lab211
I am inclined to make the appeal, I don't want to complicate things really and I fear not doing so would cause more problems than it would be worth, it has already dragged out quite a bit.

The appeal I submitted to the council was solely on the basis that the signage is not great and there was a market stall which partially obscures the sign from my approach direction. I didn't mention about the technicalities as I got the impression that would be ignored by them anyway.

For the adjudicator appeal I was going to say the same but also add the technical points as well. From a previous thread I was told two points, one being the discount time of 21 days instead of 14 and the other to do with the charge certificate statement, not so clear on what the problem with that one is though, could someone clarify?

Thanks
Neil B
QUOTE (Enceladus @ Sat, 25 Aug 2018 - 02:39) *
Lambeth haven't advised correct procedure.

They have.
I guess you missed it, being away from the forum for a while.

There are now 'standing directions' from LT in such circumstances.

Briefly, whichever party does not receive something at reps stage is to be furnished with a copy and
then decides how to proceed.

Exactly as they've done here.

QUOTE (Enceladus @ Sat, 25 Aug 2018 - 12:22) *
The OP has not been offered another chance to pay the PCN at the discount rate

Interesting point.
It's unclear what happens to the previously extended discount offer where copy rejections
are provided.
lab211
So any further suggestions on the appeal? I am still not totally clear on what the issue is with the statement about the charge certificate on the initial PCN, I would like to include this if it is valid.

Thanks
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (lab211 @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 17:27) *
So any further suggestions on the appeal? I am still not totally clear on what the issue is with the statement about the charge certificate on the initial PCN, I would like to include this if it is valid.

Thanks


Two PCN's only one CC and one revocation what has happened to the second PCN.

Both state 21 days for discount payment and both state the may issue a CC after 28 days beginning with the date of notice. The regulations state the discount period is 14 days and that the PCN must state this.

The PCN does not require that they state a CC may be issued but it does so it should give the correct time frame 28 days beginning with date of service at least two days later. As representations cannot be made after it issue of a CC in telling you they will do so 2 days before they can truncates the time allowed for you to make reps.
cp8759
QUOTE (lab211 @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 17:27) *
So any further suggestions on the appeal? I am still not totally clear on what the issue is with the statement about the charge certificate on the initial PCN, I would like to include this if it is valid.

Thanks

For the CC issue, you can use ground 2 from this draft: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...p;#entry1409111

I know it's lengthy but I would recommend you try and get your head round it.
lab211
Thanks for pointing me to that, I think I get it now.

I've drafted an appeal, using some previous ones posted on here. Does this sounds ok?:


Ground 1: The alleged contravention did not occur:

Whilst I accept that the vehicle under my control did enter a pedestrian zone on Binfield Road, the signage informing motorists of this restriction is inadequate. In particular for eastbound traffic on Clapham Road turning left into Binfield Road the sign at the entrance is positioned such that it is only visible at the last moment after the motorist is fully committed to the turn. Clapham Road is a busy A road such that by the time motorists making a left turn might be able to see the sign it would be dangerous to cancel the manoeuvre and re-join the traffic. Furthermore, on the particular day I entered Binfield Road a market stall was operating which was located on the pavement in a position that obstructed the sign for approaching eastbound traffic, as is evidenced on the CCTV footage.

Ground 2: The penalty demanded exceeds the amount due in the circumstances of the case: The Penalty Charge Notice is not substantially compliant with the legislation:

The enforcement authority served a Penalty Charge Notice under section 4(2) of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003. Section 4(8) provides that the PCN must state, amongst other things, "that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable".

The relevant 28 day period is found in paragraph 5 of schedule 1 to the Act, which specifies that:

"Where a penalty charge notice is served on any person and the penalty charge to which it relates is not paid before the end of the relevant period, the enforcing authority may serve on that person a statement (in this paragraph referred to as a “charge certificate”) to the effect that the penalty charge in question is increased by 50 per cent.
(2)The relevant period, in relation to a penalty charge notice is the period of 28 days beginning—
(a)where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above, with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served;"

Paragraph 5 therefore prescribes that the enforcement authority may only increase the penalty charge if it has not been paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the PCN.

The PCN served by the enforcement authority however states that: "Failure to pay the penalty charge in full before the end of the 28 day period may lead to the charge increasing by 50% to £195.00 and a Charge Certificate being served seeking payment of the increased charge", the Penalty Charge Notice also makes the definition “the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of this notice (‘the 28 Day Period’)” and there are no other statements relating to a 28 day period.

While one might ponder why Parliament has required that the penalty charge notice must specify, under section 4(8)(iii) of the Act, that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice, but also that the 28 day period for the purposes of the charge certificate only starts with the date of service of the notice (which is two working days later), ultimately the legislation is what it is and the enforcement authority is required to comply with it if it wishes to lawfully impose penalty charges.

By purporting to empower itself to serve a charge certificate some two days earlier than is permitted, the enforcement authority is acting prejudicially and it is depriving the recipient of the PCN of two days during which the option of either making representations, or indeed payment as the £130 penalty charge should still be available.

While the decisions in previous cases are not binding they can be persuasive and I submit Robert Atlas v London Borough of Barnet (case reference 2170053479) as persuasive authority in this instance. The decision and its review are lengthy and are attached in full to this appeal, however the relevant passages for the purposes of this appeal are as follows:

"Section 4(8)(a) of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 provides that A penalty charge notice under this section must [amongst other things] state … (iii) that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice; … (v) that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable; (vi) the amount of the increased charge; … and (viii) that the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to the Act; and (8)(b) requires that they specify the form in which any such representations are to be made.

Paragraph 1(3) of the Schedule provides that the enforcing authority may disregard any such representations which are received by them after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice in question was served.

Mr Atlas correctly points out that in this case the Penalty Charge Notice states: ‘The penalty charge of £130 must be paid not later than the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of this notice. If the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period and no representations have been made, an increased charge of 50% to £195 may be payable and a charge certificate may be issued.’

Mr Atlas submits that this wording is not compliant with the requirements of the 2003 Act and, further, effectively limits the time he has to make representations.

I accept this submission. The wording does not comply with the requirements of the Act and therefore effectively limits the time a recipient has to make representations or, indeed, to pay the full penalty charge before a Charge Certificate is issued.
...
Accordingly, I accept the application for review and the appeal must be allowed."

I submit that the same principle applies in the present case, the Penalty Charge Notice does not show substantial compliance with the 2003 Act and it follows that the only penalty that may be demanded is nil.

Ground 3: The penalty demanded exceeds the amount due in the circumstances of the case: The Penalty Charge Notice is not substantially compliant with the legislation:

The enforcement authority served a Penalty Charge Notice under section 4(2) of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003. Section 4(8) provides that the PCN must state, amongst other things, "that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion".
The PCN served by the enforcement authority however states that: "The amount of the penalty charge is reduced by 50% to £65.00 if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 21 days beginning with the date of this notice".
It is indeed generous that an extended discount period is offered, however, the wording is clearly wrong and does not comply with the prescribed format mandated by the legislation.
I bring to your attention case reference 2160047866. The relevant passages for the purposes of this appeal are as follows:
"Article 4 (8) (iv) of the Act states that the Penalty Charge Notice should state ‘that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion’

The Penalty Charge Notice sent to Miss Allan stated that ‘a reduced charge of £65 is payable….if the penalty charge is paid not later than the last day of the period of 21 days beginning with the date on which this notice was served…’

In its case summary the local authority states that the Penalty Charge Notice does comply with the legislation. I am not satisfied that it does. Although the Penalty Charge Notice offers a more generous timetable than prescribed by the legislation I am not satisfied that the Penalty Charge Notice in this case did comply with the requirements of the London Local Authorities Act 2003."
I argue that the same principle applies in this case, the Penalty Charge Notice does not comply with the 2003 Act and it follows that no penalty may be demanded.
cp8759
Seems good to me.
lab211
Thanks again for everyones help with this, I have submitted my appeal now so lets see what happens. I will update once I know the outcome.
lab211
Just a quick query on this, when I submitted the appeal it went through as an out of time appeal and has to be considered by an adjudicator before the appeal can actually be heard. Is that normal for this sort of case where the notice of rejection wasn't received and ended up getting put back to the appeal stage? The letter I got from the authority just said submit an appeal within 28 days of 13th August it didn't say it was only at the discretion of an adjudicator.

Sorry for all the Q's just want to make sure there isn't some mistake.
hcandersen
So much for the so-called directions by LT.

They are clearly flawed, if not actually unlawful, unless the authority advise the owner of the directions. I seem to remember seeing these some time ago and what appears to have happened since is that people have been summarising them, and wrongly, mostly authorities.

Anyway, OP, you must post whatever you’ve received, not summarise because you will miss out something. In this case, I suspect that the webcode in the NOR gives LT a NOR date. But you didn’t receive it! This would support my contention that the directions are not as simple as made out. As the NOR date must effectively be re-set then either the authority must notify LT or the owner input a new date in their online appeal to do which they must know to do so.

So OP, what have you received?
lab211
What I received are the two letters attatched to post #24 above.

One is a copy of the notice of rejection that I didn't receive which is dated April 27th the second is stating they will start again and allow appeal, saying to appeal at london tribunals using the appeal code on the April 27th letter.
lab211
I called up the tribunals today to see if they could shed any light, they didn't really seem to know. After some prompting they said the local authority can choose whether to issue a new notice of rejection or use the original one and maybe I should have used a different appeal code. The authority didn't give a new code however, they simply said appeal using the code on the copy of the original notice of rejection (see actual text above). Has anyone gone through this before, does this all sound right? They have had the appeal for over a week now and heard nothing so a bit worried that the council ought to have given me a new code and I won't even get a hearing because the appeal is being made months late when viewed according to the original NoR that I never received.
hcandersen
OP, you posted - ‘when I submitted the appeal it went through as an out of time appeal and has to be considered by an adjudicator before the appeal can actually be heard’

I asked what letter you had received(from LT) which told you this, to which you have referred me to the letters from the authority. How did you become aware of LT’s stance?

You have now contacted LT and have not pressed them to a conclusion on the issue which is still up in the air.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn’t do it, I’m afraid.

Get an email address for LT and post whatever you have from them regarding your appeal.
lab211
Ah right sorry I misunderstood your question. I made the submission to the tribunal online and it was whilst going through that submission that there was a notification saying it was out of time and I would have to submit a reason for why I am making an out of time submission and this would need to be considered by an adjudicator before going to hearing. When I called the tribunal up they also said about it being out of time. I haven't had anything through the post from them though nor anything other than a confirmation of the appeal submission via email. I contacted the authority asking them to confirm the applicable appeal code I should be using but of course they are being slow on that, I'll try contact the tribunal via email see if they can direct it to someone more knowledgable.
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (lab211 @ Fri, 7 Sep 2018 - 15:23) *
Ah right sorry I misunderstood your question. I made the submission to the tribunal online and it was whilst going through that submission that there was a notification saying it was out of time and I would have to submit a reason for why I am making an out of time submission and this would need to be considered by an adjudicator before going to hearing. When I called the tribunal up they also said about it being out of time. I haven't had anything through the post from them though nor anything other than a confirmation of the appeal submission via email. I contacted the authority asking them to confirm the applicable appeal code I should be using but of course they are being slow on that, I'll try contact the tribunal via email see if they can direct it to someone more knowledgable.

Tell the tribunal the reason for the late appeal. You did not receive the NOR made a stat dec the TEC revoked CC and ofr. The authority then sent you a copy of the NOR and told you to appeal or pay
lab211
So, I finally got a response back from London Tribunals, they accepted the out of time appeal and I have a date for next Tuesday for the hearing. Took them 3 weeks to decide to allow the appeal.

Today I got a huge 64 page evidence pack through the post from the authority.

One thing I was curious about was were you find all the prior cases to refer to? Is that just from the key cases on the London Tribunals site or is it possible to see records of all hearings somewhere?
Neil B
QUOTE (lab211 @ Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 23:42) *
Today I got a huge 64 page evidence pack through the post from the authority.

Show us the index and Council's case summary statement please.
lab211
This is the index and case summary:




lab211
I found the proper past case search. Interestingly I see that there was a successful appeal recently for the same contravention in the same location and on the same ground I made of inadequate signs when making a left turn (case ref 2180328857). Is it too late to reference that?
Neil B
Loads of nonsense in their summary.

But this is very short notice of hearing?

I'm busy today. Dunno about others.
lab211
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 11:32) *
Loads of nonsense in their summary.

But this is very short notice of hearing?

I'm busy today. Dunno about others.


They gave me the hearing date a few weeks ago, but I only just received the evidence pack. I agree the summary doesn't give any real defence on my second and third grounds, basically they seem to be saying the PCN says that so it's correct. Seems they have an appeal pack ready to go for this particular location as a lot of the 'evidence' included isn't relevant to my case.
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