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FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
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hcandersen
OP, can we please put the contravention to one side for the moment.

[The authority] acknowledge that they 'sent the NOR to an incorrect address'
( Case summary page 3, para. 7 refers)

What?..

When did you tell us this? We cannot see because you've redacted the address. But you have a copy of the NOR, so what's the problem with this?

Frankly, s*d the contravention, I want to drill down into this revelation. How could this address be wrong, but not the CC and OfR? And if they addressed these to a different address, then who had custody of the brain cell that day and forgot to twig that if this was not the address to which the NOR was sent then everything else was procedural garbage!
PASTMYBEST
HCA is right if they acknowledge sending the NOR to the wrong address they did not legally serve it so game over, (although there is no time frame for doing so)

They are idiots this is a LLAA 2003 PCN the time allowed for discount is 14 days not 21 as they maintain. And yes the allowed time is 28 days from date of notice. BUT the tell you on the PCN its date of service.. This must be prejudicial as their summery confirms they work to a date two days at least before that

Please post a copy of your representation and the NoR
lab211
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 12:38) *
OP, can we please put the contravention to one side for the moment.

[The authority] acknowledge that they 'sent the NOR to an incorrect address'
( Case summary page 3, para. 7 refers)

What?..

When did you tell us this? We cannot see because you've redacted the address. But you have a copy of the NOR, so what's the problem with this?

Frankly, s*d the contravention, I want to drill down into this revelation. How could this address be wrong, but not the CC and OfR? And if they addressed these to a different address, then who had custody of the brain cell that day and forgot to twig that if this was not the address to which the NOR was sent then everything else was procedural garbage!


Well basically I live in a large block of flats and they left off my apartment number from the address so it was no wonder the NoR never reached me. The address they were sending the other documents to did have the apartment number, although even that was somewhat wierd and not consistent with what the hire company gave to them.

I did notice this inaccuracy in the address when they sent a copy of the NoR after getting the charge recinded, I thought at this stage it didn't matter since the original documents had reached me that's why I hadn't brought it up.
lab211
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 13:57) *
HCA is right if they acknowledge sending the NOR to the wrong address they did not legally serve it so game over, (although there is no time frame for doing so)

They are idiots this is a LLAA 2003 PCN the time allowed for discount is 14 days not 21 as they maintain. And yes the allowed time is 28 days from date of notice. BUT the tell you on the PCN its date of service.. This must be prejudicial as their summery confirms they work to a date two days at least before that

Please post a copy of your representation and the NoR


The NoR is below. All documents except the NoR were sent addressed as

My Name
Apartment Block
Apartment Number
London
Postcode

NoR was addressed as

My Name
Apartment Block
London
Postcode

Which representations did you want to see? The ones submitted to the tribunal or the one sent to the council before the NoR? The council one I just mentioned the signage and market stall, it was only in the tribunal evidence that I added the other two points about the PCN.


mdann52
QUOTE (lab211 @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 14:39) *
My Name
Apartment Block
Apartment Number
London
Postcode

NoR was addressed as

My Name
Apartment Block
London
Postcode


Which one of these is on the V5C?
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (mdann52 @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 17:36) *
QUOTE (lab211 @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 14:39) *
My Name
Apartment Block
Apartment Number
London
Postcode

NoR was addressed as

My Name
Apartment Block
London
Postcode


Which one of these is on the V5C?


With respect this doesn't matter at this stage, though if the wrong one get it corrected.

I would like to see the representation to the council and your appeal to the tribunal. It looks likely that you need to rebut some of the BS in their summery
lab211
I don't own the vehicle, it was a hire car, so the V5C doesn't apply. My address with DVLA for my licence and that used with the hire firm is correct though.

PDF of representation to tribunal

To the council I simply said: "The sign at the entrance to Binfield Road was not visible from the angle of approach I took. There was a market stall obscuring the sign from my view, this is clearly visible in the CCTV video provided."

What I was thinking of saying in response to the council's summary was that they are relying mainly on the advance warning signs, which on their own are not sufficient especially given that this road does allow certain permit holders to enter which can only be determined from the sign at the entrance. I maintain that the sign at the entrance is not sufficiently visible, there has been a case just last week granted on this basis alone.

As for the other two grounds, the council appears to be just plain wrong, I spelt out the full detail of the relevant parts of the act with help from you guys on here and how their PCN wasn't adhering to that and they don't demonstrate compliance.
Neil B
Edit.
Too harsh.
hcandersen
Agreed.

Forget the contravention, it's a second-order issue. The main point is procedural.

I'll come back tomorrow on this point.
lab211
I didn't mean to be rude or come across as unappreciative, I am extremely greatful for all the help you and others have given on this so far.
lab211
So I had the tribunal hearing yesterday and happily my appeal was granted. The adjudicator agreed on the 21/14 days error but not the 28 day from date of issue instead of service. They granted it mainly on the basis of the signage, didn't sound like the discount period would have been sufficient as they were saying it didn't prejudice me.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions, glad this is over with now.
cp8759
QUOTE (lab211 @ Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 15:58) *
So I had the tribunal hearing yesterday and happily my appeal was granted. The adjudicator agreed on the 21/14 days error but not the 28 day from date of issue instead of service. They granted it mainly on the basis of the signage, didn't sound like the discount period would have been sufficient as they were saying it didn't prejudice me.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions, glad this is over with now.

Could you the tribunal case number? Could help others in the future.
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 15:36) *
QUOTE (lab211 @ Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 15:58) *
So I had the tribunal hearing yesterday and happily my appeal was granted. The adjudicator agreed on the 21/14 days error but not the 28 day from date of issue instead of service. They granted it mainly on the basis of the signage, didn't sound like the discount period would have been sufficient as they were saying it didn't prejudice me.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions, glad this is over with now.

Could you the tribunal case number? Could help others in the future.


2180337235

would appear she found on signage
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