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Slumberished
Hello from newbie, hope someone can help.

Whilst dropping my daughter off for her lesson, I parked on a parking bay adjacent to the main road near an industrial estate. This parking bay has been regularly used by parents dropping off their children and I have been doing this for more than a year. There are no signs indicating parking restriction of any kind.

Today on returning to the car I found a parking sign suddenly appeared in front of my car on a pole (wasn’t there 5 min before when I parked). Puzzled, I started looking around and noticed a guy planting signs (mostly placed in the hedge) and then taking pictures of cars parked. I confronted him but he just ignored me and continued to take pictures. The sign says £100 penalty for parking on private land.

Few of us exchanged details to be witnesses to this abhorent behaviour by that guy, just in case they issue a penalty notice. Is this legally enforceable? Thanks for your help.
whjohnson
Which parking company?

Is the word 'penalty' actually used?

Where is this site?
MatchlessG80
Not much is surprising in the world of private parking. Did you (or anyone else) get photos of the signs being planted? You could leave it a few days then ask the DVLA if anyone has requested keeper details from your registration number. It will make a difference if the parking company are members of a trade body and there are only two - the British Parking Association (BPA) and the International Parking Community (IPC). If not it will be harder for them to get keeper details to pursue but not impossible.
Jlc
QUOTE (Slumberished @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 19:18) *
Is this legally enforceable?

No. But this may not stop them trying. There can be no possible contract.

If they are a member of an approved trade association (BPA/IPC) then in my opinion they should lose that status and stop being able to access the DVLA.
Slumberished
Thanks for your replies. Happened in Langley (Slough). The company name on the sign is Select Security Ltd T/A Select Parking, company number 10706428. Doesn't say penalty but parking charge.

The picture below shows the sign planted in the hedge facing the car. Unfortunately I couldn't record him planting the signs but there are enough witnesses to vouch this.

Jlc
Hmmm. You'll have to wait and see if they access the DVLA.

They have to do this quickly if they are seeking keeper liability. (Deliver within 14 days)

They haven't issued a court claim to date.

If anything arrives, come back. I have a hunch they'll try it on.

Any contract is formed at the time of parking. They cannot put out a bunch of signs and claim there was a contract... I’m wondering if this is a tactic and would definitely be predatory.
MatchlessG80
I’m wondering if this is a tactic and would definitely be predatory.
[/quote]

The signs look designed to be mobile!
Slumberished
Thank you. It certainly seem to be a mobile sign and I have a video to show the sign was just inserted into the hedge. Of course I saw him inserting a sign in the hedge further along.

Will wait to see if they seek details from DVLA. Just plain crooks!
Rifty
QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 21:03) *
...... and would definitely be predatory.


If they actually claim the signs were there prior to parking and were the basis for a contract, then it isn't just predatory; it is a Criminal Deception.
Dave65
You may want to edit your post and remove anything that may ID the driver.
Just refer to "the driver" did this or that.
SchenJen
Private Parking companies are the scum of the Earth. I have a story to tell once POPLA respond to my appeal.
emanresu
QUOTE
You'll have to wait and see if they access the DVLA.


They can. They are a new IPC company and they may be in breach of the IPC with predatory practices. Likely they will say they communicated the restrictions would apply some days before, so check with others.

https://theipc.info/aos-members/s

Mind you that sign fails the "clarity" test - not that it will stop them.
Jlc
QUOTE (emanresu @ Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 06:43) *
QUOTE
You'll have to wait and see if they access the DVLA.

They can.

Indeed. It's more whether they actually do now there's an element of being 'rumbled'.

Personally, I think notices will arrive - on the basis some will pay anyway... If business doesn't come to you then the business has to go to the 'customers'.
Redivi
Note the BPA logo as well

Select Security was incorporated last year by Sanjeev Kumar who appears to be sole owner and director

Select Academy and Select Recruitment were incorporated at same time

Company was renamed last month to Select Parking Ltd

Looks more like an opportunist than a specialist

Raises the interesting situation that the company named on the signs doesn't exist
Jlc
Some interesting gems from their website too:

We rarely place tickets onto the windscreen of car.

If we reject your appeal we will send you the details of Parking on Private Land Appeals (POPLA) – the Independent Appeals Service.
The Rookie
You can be a member of the BPA but not in the AOS and be a member of the IPC, do keep up at the back.
Redivi
A number of IPC members are in the BPA

What's very unusual is to see the round AOS logo and the POPLA appeal service

The BPA doesn't list them and takes a dim view of the misuse of its logo

This company should be investigated without delay rather than waiting a month for a Notice to Keeper to appear
If the OP's up for it, I would appeal the windscreen ticket with the usual cautions not to identify the driver

If they accept the appeal because the signs weren't in place, we continue to watch the company
If they reject the appeal and change the appeal service provider to the IAS, it will confirm that the company is rotten

Trading Standards can be informed without further delay

The OP's exchanged details with some others so there are plenty of cases available to complain to the DVLA when the keeper database is accessed without reasonable cause
Suitably organised, some of the cases could be complained first to the IPC that will not look good if it fails to take any action
flexeh
Just had a mooch at the address as well. - PO box

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5476712,-...3312!8i6656

One of his other businesses was registered there in Dec, but then transferred to what i assume is his directors address.

SELECT RECRUITMENT LIMITED

Company number 10113509

Follow this company File for this company
Company Overview for SELECT RECRUITMENT LIMITED (10113509)
Filing history for SELECT RECRUITMENT LIMITED (10113509)
People for SELECT RECRUITMENT LIMITED (10113509)
Registered office address
44 Lancaster Road, Southall, England, UB1 1NW
Jlc
QUOTE (Redivi @ Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 09:29) *
This company should be investigated without delay rather than waiting a month for a Notice to Keeper to appear
If the OP's up for it, I would appeal the windscreen ticket with the usual cautions not to identify the driver

I agree but I don't believe any NtD's were issued... This is going to be done by camera only and if the drivers hadn't of returned they would have received notices in the post without even being aware.

But I agree a pre-emptive strike with as many parties as possible is worthwhile, even the IPC.
Redivi
QUOTE (flexeh @ Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 09:49) *
Just had a mooch at the address as well. - PO box

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5476712,-...3312!8i6656

One of his other businesses was registered there in Dec, but then transferred to what i assume is his directors address.

SELECT RECRUITMENT LIMITED

Company number 10113509

Follow this company File for this company
Company Overview for SELECT RECRUITMENT LIMITED (10113509)
Filing history for SELECT RECRUITMENT LIMITED (10113509)
People for SELECT RECRUITMENT LIMITED (10113509)
Registered office address
44 Lancaster Road, Southall, England, UB1 1NW

Companies House shows the registered address of Select Parking Ltd as 29 Belmont Road, Uxbridge but this is another maildrop

As an observation, Sandeep Kumar who is five months older was an officer of the interesting Select Parking Ltd in nearby Slough in 2012
The company was incorporated in September, applied for voluntary dissolution in November and dissolved the following March
His other company, Mango Parking Ltd had an identical history
MatchlessG80
Would it be worthwhile - if the OP is inclined - to go back at some point soon and see if the signs are still there?
Jlc
What would be great is to see if this is a well rehearsed routine and film them doing it. It’s potentially criminal...
Slumberished
Many thanks to everyone for their comments. I'm happy to take any action even before the notice arrives. Please advise.

Shame that I coudnt video him planting the signs in the hedge but there are witnesses.
MatchlessG80
Just been looking at their website, specifically the privacy notice, where they say ....

'Complain
If you wish to raise a complaint about how your data has been handled please email dataprotectionofficer@selectparking.co.uk. If you are not satisfied with our resolution of your concern then please contact the Information Commissioner’s Office on 03301239765'

The number given does not take you to the ICO, but to ( ..... hold on ....) Moorcroft debt recovery ..... and I doubt they share their 'help' line with the ICO.
The Rookie
I'd consider a pre-emptive strike on this
1/ To the DVLA informing them of what was observed and that their could be no reasonable cause if they apply for the RK data, back it up with formal complaints if/when they do.
2/ To them as RK, appealing on the sole basis of the sign erection and again mentioning potential breaches of the DPA 2018 if they obtain your data, may just head them off from doing it.
ManxRed
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 12:42) *
I'd consider a pre-emptive strike on this
1/ To the DVLA informing them of what was observed and that their could be no reasonable cause if they apply for the RK data, back it up with formal complaints if/when they do.
2/ To them as RK, appealing on the sole basis of the sign erection and again mentioning potential breaches of the DPA 2018 if they obtain your data, may just head them off from doing it.


But by doing #2, they won't need to do it.
ostell
If they don't contact the DVLA then they are lost in claiming against the keeper.
nosferatu1001
...and the quick way to confirm they havent used your DVLA info is to give a slightly "wrong" address for you, that would still result in the post being delivered.
The Slithy Tove
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 12:42) *
I'd consider a pre-emptive strike on this
1/ To the DVLA informing them of what was observed and that their could be no reasonable cause if they apply for the RK data, back it up with formal complaints if/when they do.
2/ To them as RK, appealing on the sole basis of the sign erection and again mentioning potential breaches of the DPA 2018 if they obtain your data, may just head them off from doing it.

Maybe include in #1 a GDPR-related point. Considering the circumstances, they (the data controller) must contact you first before handing over your details, particularly if there is not normally any manual intervention in this handover. There's a thread somewhere following this line (on MSE, I think). The DVLA will ignore, and have already pushed back on this approach. But the fact that you point this out now to them may be to your advantage later, when you can say "told you so" to the DVLA.
The Rookie
QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 15:27) *
Maybe include in #1 a GDPR-related point. Considering the circumstances, they (the data controller) must contact you first before handing over your details,

I would disagree, its either lawful or its not, if it is lawful there is no need for the DC to contact the subject, if its unlawful they shouldn't be handing it over regardless, so I think that adds nothing.
MatchlessG80
Their web site now seems to have vanished (might be temporary), I complained to the ICO about them using the ICO logo (as many parking companies do to add spurious credibility to their activities - as far as I can see). I don't know if the events are related. Might be a case for trading standards.
Redivi
It's certainly reportable to Trading Standards if they reject an appeal regarding a car that was parked before the signs were erected
Slumberished
RK received the ‘Parking Charge Notice to Keeper’ today (11th July). Actually, the incident happened on 15th June.

However the notice says, Parking Charge Date of issue as 20th April !!! (nothing issued, no windscreen ticket, no ANPR, the attendant was busy taking some pictures on his mobile phone when I returned)

Don’t know what these cowboys are on about. Even If it’s 20th April, PCN was issued to RK more than 80 days since the incident. Please advise how to play with this PCN. Thank you.

This is the picture of the sign planted after parking.

Click to view attachment
Jlc
Does it claim keeper liability?

The DVLA needs to know about this... if the wrong date was used for KADOE then wrong keeper details could be in play.
Slumberished
Does not mention about keeper's liability. Ta.
Slumberished
Adding further info:-

1. There is no information of when the breach occurred. Period of Parking- from N/A, To N/A
2. The stated place where the breach occurred is NOT where the car was parked. The address provided is a total lie and correspond to parking spaces in a series of industrial units on the other side of the road. The car was parked in unmarked parking spaces by the main road and far away from any industrial units.
3. No evidence of parking provided (APNR images, pictures etc)
4. Date and Time of Issue: 20th April. This predates the actual incident date. However, the car was also parked in the same place on 20th April (lessons for Children every Friday) but no signs were in place on that day. Hence I’m not sure if the PCN received today is related to my original topic.
5. RK was served PCN approximately after 81 days (going by the incident date as claimed). The footer of the letter states Notice to Keeper – non PoFA

How do we fight this please?

The appeal body is not POPLA but IAS which I understand is akin to asking turkeys to vote for Christmas.





bobthesod
Slumberished

You haven't 'amended your original post to show that 'THE DRIVER PARKED>>>>.......THE DRIVER SAW>>>>>>......> as recommended

Please do it asap
Slumberished
QUOTE (bobthesod @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 19:57) *
Slumberished

You haven't 'amended your original post to show that 'THE DRIVER PARKED>>>>.......THE DRIVER SAW>>>>>>......> as recommended

Please do it asap



Thanks bobthesod. Sorry, but I cant edit, the edit option is not showing for me huh.gif

Can a Mod do it please?
kommando
Hit the report button and ask for assistance.
Redivi
Confirms our suspicions that the company is not the most ethical

Did you appeal that the signs were in process of being erected, as advised ?
Slumberished
QUOTE (Redivi @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 20:59) *
Confirms our suspicions that the company is not the most ethical

Did you appeal that the signs were in process of being erected, as advised ?


Havent received a PCN for this yet.

The PCN received today is different date, almost 2 months earlier, 20th April, there were no signs. The signs went up (in the bushes) on 15th June and after the car was parked.

Ta.
The Slithy Tove
QUOTE (Slumberished @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 19:41) *
4. Date and Time of Issue: 20th April. This predates the actual incident date. However, the car was also parked in the same place on 20th April (lessons for Children every Friday) but no signs were in place on that day. Hence I’m not sure if the PCN received today is related to my original topic.

I wonder if they even had a contract with the landowner on 20/04. Something very dodgy going on.
Slumberished
QUOTE
I wonder if they even had a contract with the landowner on 20/04. Something very dodgy going on.


Exactly my concern too as the signs didn't go up until 15th June in the place where the car was actually parked.

Bigger concern is that the PCN claims that car was parked in Industrial Unit car park on the opposite side which is sign posted. Explains why they didnt offer any proof of breach.
hhan
Hi,
Situation as described by OP coming in the post today from Select Parking , titled "parking charge - notice to keeper".

So yes, they have obtained the owner details from DVLA somehow.

Like OP, saw a tall asian chap (most likely sole propreitor Mr SK ) taking photos of the vehicles hap hazardly using his mobile phone.. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Units 3-8 Waterside drive, Langley SL3 is the site - which is right opposite to the AE Langley tuition centre.
hhan
Inserting the pictures of what I received.
hhan
QUOTE (hhan @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 00:26) *
Inserting the pictures of what I received.


They sent me a charge notice for parking with date, but no time?

Kind request to OP - please edit the title of the thread to add "select parking" if you could please.
Redivi
Better idea - start your own thread with that title instead of hijacking Slumberished's
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