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tnaty
Hi there,
My car was towed to newham under code 19, I did however display a visitors permit which was valid until 3/6/18. My car was towed on the 3rd at 10.55 am but my permit ran out at 19.05pm on the 3rd. I am unsure on the representations appeal form they gave me as the form does not have the option of 'the contravention did not occur' it just has a load of writing I do not understand! if anyone could help me on this I would be very thankful! I have lots of pictures and copies of everything if someone is willing to help me out!

Thank you in advance
Dave65
More details needed, gather you have a PCN!
Which Company?
Can you post up a copy of the PCN with all personal details redacted.
Redivi
Sounds like this needs moving to the council forum

Use the Report button
nosferatu1001
Hit REPORT
Ask to be moved
YOu will need
1) Copies of the documetns you have from the council
2) Any photos they took; there WILL be a PCN ref you can find and view pics on.
3) A copy of the signs or google street view.
tnaty
this is the letter we have prepared! thoughts please! also I cannot seem to upload photos on here how do I do that? Its newham council by the way.


Dear Sir or Madam,

Parking ticket number: PN
Vehicle registration number:

I am writing to make a formal appeal with regards the above parking ticket and associated cost of recovery from the pound at Newham. This letter is in addition to my completed appeal form, which is enclosed. I am making my appeal due to the following reasons:


1. The alleged contravention did not occur:
Quite simply, the parking attendant got it wrong and I was not parked inappropriately at the time the ticket was issued. This is due to the fact that I was parked in a shared bay and had permission to park there by way of a 24-hour permit. The permit commenced at 1905hrs on 2nd June 2018 for 24 hours. My vehicle was removed from this bay at 1055hrs on 3rd June 2018 (only 15 hours and 50 minutes after my permit commenced). Thus, there was no contravention. I am enclosing the following evidence:
(a) A picture of my vehicle in the bay before I left it; clearly shows the permit on display (Item 1)
(b) A picture of the sign located at the parking bay I used (item 2)
© A picture of my vehicle when I collected it from the pound taken at the time of recovery in the presence of a member of staff. This member of staff saw the permit clearly displayed and advised me to appeal (Item 3)
(d) A close-up picture of the displayed permit in my car (Item 4)
(e) A photocopy of the actual permit (Item 5)

2. There has been procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority
• I was not given any notice of my car’s removal. The observation commenced just 11 minutes prior to the removal when I was not present. Before removal of a vehicle a minimum of 30 minutes must be allowed (I have no prior contraventions).


• It is also my contention that my vehicle was not parked in such a manner that removal in this instance was either proportionate or necessary as my vehicle was not causing any obstruction nor safety hazard to any other road user. It is my belief that the enforcement authority cannot justify removal in this instance. Removal without justification is a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority.

• The member of staff that processed by vehicle collection at the pound did not go through the appeals process with me; she simply handed me the form, expecting me to understand my rights and the terminology. This is totally unreasonable and contravenes your own published procedures.

If the money is not refunded I will be forced to take the matter to the Small Claims Court.

Yours faithfully,




PASTMYBEST
For posting use an external site such as flickr or imgur . This is not the first we have seen Newham will probably say the permit was invalid the next day. Doubt an adjudicator will though
tnaty




nosferatu1001
Have you hit report? THIS MUST NO BE IN THIS FORUM ANY LONGER. Experts elsewhere will know this

Dont use the print outs, use the website hosted ones they usually provider

Pretty sure small claims court is unlikely.
tnaty
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 13:51) *
Have you hit report? THIS MUST NO BE IN THIS FORUM ANY LONGER. Experts elsewhere will know this

Dont use the print outs, use the website hosted ones they usually provider

Pretty sure small claims court is unlikely.


how do I do that? I clicked on report but it says that's only for abuse etc. this thread is surely not that?
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (tnaty @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 13:57) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 13:51) *
Have you hit report? THIS MUST NO BE IN THIS FORUM ANY LONGER. Experts elsewhere will know this

Dont use the print outs, use the website hosted ones they usually provider

Pretty sure small claims court is unlikely.


how do I do that? I clicked on report but it says that's only for abuse etc. this thread is surely not that?



Done it for you, Different areas of knowledge for the different forums

Please post the authorisation for removal and ALL council photos
tnaty
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 14:01) *
QUOTE (tnaty @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 13:57) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 13:51) *
Have you hit report? THIS MUST NO BE IN THIS FORUM ANY LONGER. Experts elsewhere will know this

Dont use the print outs, use the website hosted ones they usually provider

Pretty sure small claims court is unlikely.


how do I do that? I clicked on report but it says that's only for abuse etc. this thread is surely not that?



Done it for you, Different areas of knowledge for the different forums

Please post the authorisation for removal and ALL council photos


okay thanks! what do you mean? I haven't seen any council photos, these are just mine. I have more but theyre not really necessary ie just a picture of when I picked the car up from the pound. The only other info I have are receipts from my payments to them and the vehicle release form.
stamfordman
The poor wording on the permit puts you in the clear I reckon (it doesn't say the 24 hours must be in one day only), and towing for a code 19 (lower level) penalty is typical of Newham and likely to be ruled disproportionate. But the PCN falls on the permit wording in my opinion, and therefore so does the tow.
tnaty
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 14:50) *
The poor wording on the permit puts you in the clear I reckon (it doesn't say the 24 hours must be in one day only), and towing for a code 19 (lower level) penalty is typical of Newham and likely to be ruled disproportionate. But the PCN falls on the permit wording in my opinion, and therefore so does the tow.


so do you mean they may not accept my appeal? surely I'm correct, Ive parked here many times using the vistors permit as my sister lives there, and ive never had a problem before, I don't understand what you are saying sorry, but thanks for the reply!
stamfordman
QUOTE (tnaty @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 15:10) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 14:50) *
The poor wording on the permit puts you in the clear I reckon (it doesn't say the 24 hours must be in one day only), and towing for a code 19 (lower level) penalty is typical of Newham and likely to be ruled disproportionate. But the PCN falls on the permit wording in my opinion, and therefore so does the tow.


so do you mean they may not accept my appeal? surely I'm correct, Ive parked here many times using the vistors permit as my sister lives there, and ive never had a problem before, I don't understand what you are saying sorry, but thanks for the reply!



Well the permit says 'ALL DAY' so they may think it's only for use on one day. I see the restriction doesn't end until 9 pm though so you needed a permit when you parked and the wording is clear it's then for 24 hours. I can't see you've done anything wrong but we won't know what it is Newham thinks until they reply to your appeal. They are known for accusing people of using pencil not pen - is it filled out in pen?
tnaty
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 15:24) *
QUOTE (tnaty @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 15:10) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 14:50) *
The poor wording on the permit puts you in the clear I reckon (it doesn't say the 24 hours must be in one day only), and towing for a code 19 (lower level) penalty is typical of Newham and likely to be ruled disproportionate. But the PCN falls on the permit wording in my opinion, and therefore so does the tow.


so do you mean they may not accept my appeal? surely I'm correct, Ive parked here many times using the vistors permit as my sister lives there, and ive never had a problem before, I don't understand what you are saying sorry, but thanks for the reply!



Well the permit says 'ALL DAY' so they may think it's only for use on one day. I see the restriction doesn't end until 9 pm though so you needed a permit when you parked and the wording is clear it's then for 24 hours. I can't see you've done anything wrong but we won't know what it is Newham thinks until they reply to your appeal. They are known for accusing people of using pencil not pen - is it filled out in pen?



No this is Black biro pen, so is the letter that we wrote okay? and should I attach my pictures? I guess there's no harm attaching them anyway?


stamfordman
Check here for any council pics:

https://www.newham.gov.uk/Pages/Services/Pa...-penalties.aspx

you have to pretend you're paying to see images.

The only other thing I can think fo is the permit is expired - does it have a year valid date on it?

PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (tnaty @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 12:15) *
this is the letter we have prepared! thoughts please! also I cannot seem to upload photos on here how do I do that? Its newham council by the way.


Dear Sir or Madam,

Parking ticket number: PN
Vehicle registration number:

I am writing to make a formal appeal with regards the above parking ticket and associated cost of recovery from the pound at Newham. This letter is in addition to my completed appeal form, which is enclosed. I am making my appeal due to the following reasons:


1. The alleged contravention did not occur:
Quite simply, the parking attendant got it wrong and I was not parked inappropriately at the time the ticket was issued. This is due to the fact that I was parked in a shared bay and had permission to park there by way of a 24-hour permit. The permit commenced at 1905hrs on 2nd June 2018 for 24 hours. My vehicle was removed from this bay at 1055hrs on 3rd June 2018 (only 15 hours and 50 minutes after my permit commenced). Thus, there was no contravention. I am enclosing the following evidence:
(a) A picture of my vehicle in the bay before I left it; clearly shows the permit on display (Item 1)
(b) A picture of the sign located at the parking bay I used (item 2)
© A picture of my vehicle when I collected it from the pound taken at the time of recovery in the presence of a member of staff. This member of staff saw the permit clearly displayed and advised me to appeal (Item 3)
(d) A close-up picture of the displayed permit in my car (Item 4)
(e) A photocopy of the actual permit (Item 5)

2. There has been procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority
• I was not given any notice of my car’s removal.
The observation commenced just 11 minutes prior to the removal when I was not present. Before removal of a vehicle a minimum of 30 minutes must be allowed (I have no prior contraventions).


• It is also my contention that my vehicle was not parked in such a manner that removal in this instance was either proportionate or necessary as my vehicle was not causing any obstruction nor safety hazard to any other road user. It is my belief that the enforcement authority cannot justify removal in this instance. Removal without justification is a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority.

• The member of staff that processed by vehicle collection at the pound did not go through the appeals process with me; she simply handed me the form, expecting me to understand my rights and the terminology. This is totally unreasonable and contravenes your own published procedures.

If the money is not refunded I will be forced to take the matter to the Small Claims Court.

Yours faithfully,


remove the bits I've highlighted in red then its fine for reps but wait a bit see what others have to say
stamfordman
If appealing the tow as well as the PCN it's critical to say the PCN was the lowest priority as a code 19 lower level penalty. They should never tow for these.
tnaty
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 16:01) *
Check here for any council pics:

https://www.newham.gov.uk/Pages/Services/Pa...-penalties.aspx

you have to pretend you're paying to see images.

The only other thing I can think fo is the permit is expired - does it have a year valid date on it?

tnaty
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 16:02) *
QUOTE (tnaty @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 12:15) *
this is the letter we have prepared! thoughts please! also I cannot seem to upload photos on here how do I do that? Its newham council by the way.


Dear Sir or Madam,

Parking ticket number: PN
Vehicle registration number:

I am writing to make a formal appeal with regards the above parking ticket and associated cost of recovery from the pound at Newham. This letter is in addition to my completed appeal form, which is enclosed. I am making my appeal due to the following reasons:


1. The alleged contravention did not occur:
Quite simply, the parking attendant got it wrong and I was not parked inappropriately at the time the ticket was issued. This is due to the fact that I was parked in a shared bay and had permission to park there by way of a 24-hour permit. The permit commenced at 1905hrs on 2nd June 2018 for 24 hours. My vehicle was removed from this bay at 1055hrs on 3rd June 2018 (only 15 hours and 50 minutes after my permit commenced). Thus, there was no contravention. I am enclosing the following evidence:
(a) A picture of my vehicle in the bay before I left it; clearly shows the permit on display (Item 1)
(b) A picture of the sign located at the parking bay I used (item 2)
© A picture of my vehicle when I collected it from the pound taken at the time of recovery in the presence of a member of staff. This member of staff saw the permit clearly displayed and advised me to appeal (Item 3)
(d) A close-up picture of the displayed permit in my car (Item 4)
(e) A photocopy of the actual permit (Item 5)

2. There has been procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority
• I was not given any notice of my car’s removal.
The observation commenced just 11 minutes prior to the removal when I was not present. Before removal of a vehicle a minimum of 30 minutes must be allowed (I have no prior contraventions).


• It is also my contention that my vehicle was not parked in such a manner that removal in this instance was either proportionate or necessary as my vehicle was not causing any obstruction nor safety hazard to any other road user. It is my belief that the enforcement authority cannot justify removal in this instance. Removal without justification is a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority.

• The member of staff that processed by vehicle collection at the pound did not go through the appeals process with me; she simply handed me the form, expecting me to understand my rights and the terminology. This is totally unreasonable and contravenes your own published procedures.

If the money is not refunded I will be forced to take the matter to the Small Claims Court.

Yours faithfully,


remove the bits I've highlighted in red then its fine for reps but wait a bit see what others have to say



Do you not think that there was a procedural impropriety then? I also cannot see any pictures online it wont let me access as ive already paid at the impound.
cp8759
It's not a procedural impropriety to remove the car without giving you notice, as it has never been a requirement to give notice before towing an (allegedly) illegally parked car. You cannot take the council to the small claims court as the County Court doesn't have jurisdiction or if it does, it is not the appropriate forum. These matters fall within the jurisdiction of the London Tribunals.

If you PM me the details of the PCN I'll get the pictures for you.
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