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FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
Mcrparker345
Hi,

Just wanted to check that my understanding is correct before I write my appeal.

I parked on a street in Manchester city centre and have received a ticket for not displaying a ticket.

There were no signs or machine on the side of the road that I parked to indicate the bay I parked in was part of the pay and display parking.

I was of the understanding that each bay or row of bays needs to have the correct signage referring to pay at machine display ticket and that a sign on the other side of the road would not cover where I parked

Am I correct?

I rang Manchester parking but they would not confirm if I was right they just told me to either pay or appeal if I did not agree.

Thanks
stamfordman
Post the PCN. council pics and your pics. Also Google Street View of location.

Use a site such as Imgur or flickr for pics.

The sign in the bay you parked in (if any) is the crucial one.
Mcrparker345
I will post pictures of PCN when I am home not sure how to do it so will read up on it.

google streetview :

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4741082,-...3312!8i6656

The sign that is present on the google street view is not there now, only the post with nothing on it.
PASTMYBEST
Manchester city centre is a controlled parking zone so each bay needs its own sign, get a photo showing it is not there and get the council photos of the website, lets see what they are using
cp8759
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 15:01) *
Manchester city centre is a controlled parking zone so each bay needs its own sign, get a photo showing it is not there and get the council photos of the website, lets see what they are using

+1, if there's no sign, the bay is not controlled and it's a free for all.
stamfordman
Manchester doesn't like owing up to bays with no signs, if true in your case, so there may be a battle.

See this one:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=112929
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 20:20) *
Manchester doesn't like owing up to bays with no signs, if true in your case, so there may be a battle.

See this one:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=112929


But it won.
Mcrparker345
The pictures I took
And the PCN

https://www.flickr.com/gp/162493213@N04/05q067
stamfordman
Yup, looks like missing sign.







Mcrparker345
And the council pictures

https://www.flickr.com/photos/162493213@N04/shares/9H106S

So am I right that there needs to be a sign on the side of the road that I parked?
cp8759
The council pictures helpfully show the pole with no sign. I would go in early and hard outlining that it would be wholly unreasonable for the council to continue with the enforcement process in light of the evidence available.
stamfordman
QUOTE (Mcrparker345 @ Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 21:27) *
So am I right that there needs to be a sign on the side of the road that I parked?



To be clear - there needs to be a sign for the set of bays you parked in. No sign, no contravention. The council pics show no sign and at least the CEO didn't take one of a sign elsewhere.
Mcrparker345
Have appealed on council website .
Will let you know outcome

Thanks for help so far..

Presumably I should find somewhere else to park tomorrow!
cp8759
QUOTE (Mcrparker345 @ Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 22:10) *
Have appealed on council website .
Will let you know outcome

Thanks for help so far..

Presumably I should find somewhere else to park tomorrow!

If it were me, I'd park in the same place. The council can only make the bay restricted by replacing the sign, unlawfully issuing PCNs to vehicles parked in that bay does not make the bay restricted. But I don't mind taking a half dozen PCNs to the adjudicator, for peace of mind you might want to park somewhere else.
Mcrparker345
Haha! I think once I win this one I will return but for now I don't fancy multiple tickets
Mcrparker345
I have not heard anything back yet but the van I was driving was on hire. Will the hire company pay it then add on admin fees if the council contact them?
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (Mcrparker345 @ Sun, 1 Jul 2018 - 21:59) *
I have not heard anything back yet but the van I was driving was on hire. Will the hire company pay it then add on admin fees if the council contact them?



It is the hire co that will get the notice to owner so i would get on to them and tell them not to pay they can make reps that the vehicle was on hire and have liability transferred to you. check what if any their admin fee will be for this it might be worth you paying the penalty
Mcrparker345
I heard nothing from the council and it is now past 28 days. Do I presume it has been dropped or do they have to issue a reply to the appeal.
John U.K.
What happened when you contacted the hire company??
Mcrparker345
It is hired through the company I work for so I do not have direct contact with them. Spoke to transport manager and he said would let me know if they got in touch with him. Hire company is enterprise.

Ps I am liable for any speeding or parking tickets as I know some companies do pay these for their drivers
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (Mcrparker345 @ Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 07:15) *
It is hired so I do not have direct contact with them. Spoke to transport manager and he said would let me know if they got in touch with him. Hire company is enterprise


their policy is to pay and bill the hirer
cp8759
If that is still their policy then it is arguably illegal. We've seen at least one case before where this was put to them as a customer service issue and they just backed down and took the loss, which to be honest serves them right for not following the legal process.
Mcrparker345
So after the best part of 3 months I had email from Manchester council rejecting my appeal.
Do they have as long as they want to respond?
stamfordman
No statutory time limit on a challenge. You are in a difficult position now because it is out of your hands as NTO will go to Enterprise - maybe your transport manager can sort it.
Mcrparker345
I have the option to pay reduced £25 fine so as much as I don't like to may pay it
cp8759
QUOTE (Mcrparker345 @ Mon, 29 Oct 2018 - 21:39) *
I have the option to pay reduced £25 fine so as much as I don't like to may pay it

If you challenge this further, you're highly likely to get the penalty overturned. It's a sensible idea to preemptively write to Enterprise to tell them to appeal the penalty on the basis that to get liability transferred to your company, if they try appealing the penalty for any other reason they'll mess it up and if they pay, it's game over.
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