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Star123
My son has received a letter from police asking for name and to confirm he was driving his car at certain date and time. The request is for Driving without due care and attention prior to a road traffic collision and failing to stop and supply details. He was in his street and has no idea what the incident is. Should he provide his details? Is this automatically admitting to something he doesn't know he has done?
He has not received a nip however will this letter lead on to one?
thank you for any advice
The Rookie
He has to name the driver or face a slam dunk 6 points and large fine for failing to do so as it should tell you on the letter.

It admits nothing beyond being the driver at that time at that place. It can be used as evidence in any trial but only as to the driver identity and no other facts of the case.

Depending on the circumstances the police will either
1/ Arrange for insurance details to be exchanged and take no further action
2/ Prosecute the offences, if he can convince a court he was unaware of any incident then he would be acquitted but that will depend on more factors than you’ve told us.

He doesn’t have to have been physically involved in the collision to be required by law to stop and/or report.

Any reason he can’t post himself, Chinese whispers, especially via parent , is rarely the best way to get to the bottom of things and give the best advice.
andy_foster
Can your son post here himself, instead of you potentially playing chinese whispers?
What does "He was in his street" mean (in the context of the notice)? Was he, and more importantly was his car at the location stated in the notice at or around the time stated?


QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 23 May 2018 - 20:08) *
He has to name the driver or face a slam dunk 6 points and large fine for failing to do so as it should tell you on the letter.


That depends on what exactly daddy's chinese whispers equate to.
Star123
Hi Rookie,

Thanks for the feedback.

Comment about being in the street was quick typing. Meant to say he was in our street, not that that makes a difference but should have jogged a memory of a collision which he is in the dark about.

I've posted because he's in work and at 17 wouldn't have a clue where to start to seek help.

I wanted to find out why they wouldn't send a nip or is that only if captured on camera?

He will complete the form.

andy_foster
No NIP is required if the accused was involved in an accident (which can include causing an accident without yourself colliding with anything). However, that does not apply if the accused was not aware of the incident.
The Rookie
A postal NIP would normally be used for any incident where the Police couldn’t stop the car at the time, whether that is captured by camera, captured by an officer on the way to a more important incident or reported by a member of the public.

If it’s in your street i’d suggest a minor parking nudge is the most likely cause for the letter.

What makes you sure this is not a NIP? It only has to make it clear a prosecution may result for the alleged offence at the time and place, there is no prescribed wording.
Star123
Thank you both,

I didn't consider it to be a NIP simply because it doesn't have the wording of prosecution although I hadn't realised it could just be a letter.
He has just received a letter with a form to complete including name and address and insurance details and to confirm he was driving at said time.

Not sure how you prove you were unaware of collision, though he seems to be. Doesn't show great awareness in any event if he's not noticed!



The Rookie
It would usually say prosecution, but doesn’t have to.

The fact it asks for insurance details is a good sign that they may just be seeking to exchange details and will take no further action.

With all due respects, 17 year old talking to parents always seem unaware of anything at all........you wouldn’t be the first on here who’s offspring has been economical with their version of events (if indeed he is being).
Star123
Thank you, we'll fill the form in and wait for a response.

Hopefully it will be to pass insurance details on as you suggest and we can resolve.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.
bama
Form ? ?

you said it was a letter (and that you don't consider it to be a NIP).
is it in fact a NIP or not ?

it could just be a letter if some member of joe public has phoned in a complaint.
In which cash the Bib are just fishing.
if it is just a letter with a request then I don't see there is any legal obligation to reply at all.
If I am wrong about that then I am sure the eagles here will jump on it,
if it is in fact a NIP then replying is in order.
The Rookie
QUOTE (bama @ Thu, 24 May 2018 - 13:01) *
if it is just a letter with a request then I don't see there is any legal obligation to reply at all.

An S172 request can be in the form of a letter and yes there is a legal obligation to reply!
peterguk
QUOTE (bama @ Thu, 24 May 2018 - 13:01) *
if it is in fact a NIP then replying is in order.


No reply is ever required to a NIP..
Redivi
If he is genuinely unaware of any incident, his reply should say so
bama
QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 24 May 2018 - 13:43) *
QUOTE (bama @ Thu, 24 May 2018 - 13:01) *
if it is in fact a NIP then replying is in order.


No reply is ever required to a NIP..


Apols, i used the shorthand for the usual combuined NIP and S172. I should have been more
explicit.
Same point though - is it a letter or a NIP or just a S172 on its own.

QUOTE
If he is genuinely unaware of any incident, his reply should say so

have to disagree on that. he could end up with a careless/more serious charge being thrown into the mix should it get to court.
never offer facts that have not been asked for - they will get used against you (just like 'the anything you say').
The Bib is not writing to make a new pen friend.
the approach of @I have done nothing wrong, it can't hurt me to tell them things/talk to them' is mistaken. People whi have done that have ensed up with convictions, some of them lawyers who though they were smart enough to do it without risk.
there is zero knowledge of the details of the alleged incident.
To assume this letter is benign is foolish.
southpaw82
If he isn’t aware of any incident then establishing that fact early does have some merit. I’m not sure how a careless driving charge could arise from such a statement.
cp8759
QUOTE (bama @ Thu, 24 May 2018 - 18:23) *
QUOTE
If he is genuinely unaware of any incident, his reply should say so

have to disagree on that. he could end up with a careless/more serious charge being thrown into the mix should it get to court.

Either the driving fell below the standard of a competent and careful driver, or it didn't. Hitting something would often suffice to say that it did. But I don't see how the defendant's knowledge or otherwise of the collision would make any difference.
bama
because it conflicts with the evidence of a believeable but mistaken witness (or the person making the allegation) would be one obvious way.
Conflict/ disagreement/who is lying or mistaken - police investigate.

Do not relieve the claimaint/accuser of their burden. And for sure don't say anything that could disagree with the details of the complaint - and as the complaint has not been seen then offering any unasked for facts is foolhardy.
the complaint must allege something 'bad' - how bad know one knows.
if the Bib have enough evidence already then they can bring a charge, if not then don't open any doors.
never play 'he said - she said'
'he siad - silence. thats all we got' is better.
anything you say (even before being arrested) especially in writing can and will be used.

southpaw82
QUOTE (bama @ Fri, 25 May 2018 - 16:35) *
because it conflicts with the evidence of a believeable but mistaken witness (or the person making the allegation) would be one obvious way.
Conflict/ disagreement/who is lying or mistaken - police investigate.

Do not relieve the claimaint/accuser of their burden. And for sure don't say anything that could disagree with the details of the complaint - and as the complaint has not been seen then offering any unasked for facts is foolhardy.
the complaint must allege something 'bad' - how bad know one knows.
if the Bib have enough evidence already then they can bring a charge, if not then don't open any doors.
never play 'he said - she said'
'he siad - silence. thats all we got' is better.
anything you say (even before being arrested) especially in writing can and will be used.

Again, I don’t see a simple comment saying "I’m not aware of any accident" as being detrimental, unless it’s a demonstrable lie. If an accident occurred and he wasn’t aware of it then so be it - saying so early adds credibility to that. I don’t see what door is being opened - unless there’s some contrived scenario where the OP was involved in an accident but wasn’t careless but by not noticing said accident he became careless.
cp8759
QUOTE (bama @ Fri, 25 May 2018 - 16:35) *
anything you say (even before being arrested) especially in writing can and will be used.

Are you sure of that?
Redivi
Can the reply be used in evidence if the notice doesn't include a caution ?
Redivi
Can the reply be used in evidence if the notice doesn't include a caution ?
The Rookie
Of course......
cp8759
QUOTE (Redivi @ Sat, 26 May 2018 - 09:05) *
Can the reply be used in evidence if the notice doesn't include a caution ?

Yes, but only to prove the identity of the driver.
Logician
s.12(1) RTOA 1988
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