Hello all.

Being as this is my first post I would like to thank the management and contributors of this site for providing such a brilliant resourse, and for all the hard work and effort that you all put into it.

I've read with interest over the past few hours the various posts and topics with regards to FPN's, but as a layman like myself I don't fully understand what to do once an FPN is received.

What I can gather from this site is that instead of filling out the relivant part of the NIP, one provides a separate witness statement. Why is that, and how would that help me to avoid a speeding prosecution?

If this case does get to court What sort of evedence would I present (I'm not asking anybody to put words into my mouth, or to prepare my case for me) I can't just say "your Honour as I haven't filled out the relivant section on the NIP I can not be prosecuted" There must be some other factors in prepairing this case.

To cut a long story short this is what happened.

22 March get caught by a speed camera driving my company's leased vehicle somewhere within England and Wales.

14th June. My employer received letter from a camera partnership dated 7th of June. Employer states that the original NIP must have been sent to the hire company within the 14 day period.

I phoned the "Camera partnership" and asked them why there was a huge delay inbetween them sending the original NIP to the Lease company and my Employer receiving their one. They said "our systems have been down!!!!!!!!!"

I'm sorry that for my first post this has been long winded.

Many Thanks.

Monza

Welcome to the club!!

First thing is first if you complete the NIP wizard http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=2907

this allows all the information to be looked at at once so the forum members can get a good understanding of what has gone on in your case and provide an idea of what you should do next.

The wizard will also advise on what your best next course of action should be - it may be that the PACE option isn't the right one for you so complete that first and then copy it and post it back on this thread (don't start new ones it annoys the powers that be and other people trying to follow your case or thread)

Good luck

Thanks for your reply Missdaisy.

I hope that this is the info that you require.

Cheers from Monza




NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - South Wales police
Date of the offence: - March 2006
Date of the NIP: - 76 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 83 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A4055 Cogan spur roadworks
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - NK
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Vehicle leased by my employer. This a vehicle in a pool, I am not it's regular driver
How many current points do you have? - 6
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I can't remember as it was some time ago

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Wales
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it)? - Yes
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes


NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

• Complete the PACE witness statement.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v1.0.2: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 20:55:59 +0100

How did you get a NIP in your own name? Your first post says

Sorry my mistake!! My employer has named me as the driver of this vehicle, and I WILL BE receiving the NIP in my name shortly

When did your employer send off the letter naming you?

It was posted at some Point today

Don't they like you? I've got a couple of other questions. You say


but also

Which is it?

The delay may help you..............time out is always an option.... they have six months from the date of the offence (I believe) to summons you.

Righty ho south wales no one will be surprised.

Firstly DO NOTHING! if you haven't had a NIP in your name wait and ensure that you get one in your name first. You never know another computer may go down..

Then once you have it.
As you are not the only driver of the car the first thing you should do is find out if it was you driving. As it was such a long time ago you should ask for photographic evidence once you recieve a NIP in your own name. You would be committing an offence if you were to say you were driving the car if you might not have been so it is always worth ensuring that you were.

Once you get the photos post them back on here and ensure you remove all identifyable details but leave on speed and the calculations from the camera as they are important. The guys who are good at maths and pictures will then be able to see if there is anything untoward about them.

If everything is all above board then the PACE statement is the best move. This simply provides the information in such a way that complies with the law fully but does not provide self incriminating evidence that will be used against you to prosecute you. This link explains how PACE works and why do it. You should also follow the links to the court cases that are going through at the moment as they may be of interest to you.

Other things to consider:
What speed were you doing and what was the limit? What type of camera was it? If roadworks the generator could be an issue for them (although difficult for you to remember or prove now I guess) the signage could also be an issue - don't know if they are long term and still there but that could be worth a look at.


PACE Link
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=2846

The Keeper of the vehicle is the one in posession of it at that particular moment. As I was the driver I was the keeper of it.

If that is true its a new one on me! The keeper is the one registered with the DVLA as the owner of the car. You said in your first one that it was a hire car - does your company use lease vehicles? If so its the lease company who own the car.

The person who is driving is only a person who is properly insured to drive the vehicle not the registered keeper. The reason why it makes a difference is that the registered keeper is the one who is responsible for knowing who is driving the car. Which is near on impossible in your circumstances as there are so many people in the chain. For each person in the chain a new NIP needs to be issued as each part in the chain discharges its legal duty to name the person who they believe may have been driving.

I know it is confusing.

Are you sure you had the vehicle that day?

As Missdaisy said, and as I alluded to very obliquely, time out is tantalisingly close. They need to summons you within 6 months. The offence was 22nd March, so the summons deadline is 22nd September. It's now mid June and you don't have your own NIP. Once you get your own you'll get 28 days to respond and a further 28 days to pay the FP they issue on reciept of your completed response. Only if you ignore the FP will they move to summons you.

If only your employer hadn't responded the same day. That gives the scammers a month in hand. Does your boss pay his bills as quick?

When you get your own NIP post back and we'll do some calculations.

Edit:Missdaisy, you are confusing the registered keeper with the keeper. these are not the same.

[/quote]Edit:Missdaisy, you are confusing the registered keeper with the keeper. these are not the same[quote]



Like I said new one to me!!! I thought registered keeper is the one stored at DVLA and keeper is the person who drives it day to day - learn something new every second in my world!

Missdaisy, that is correct, but it's not what you said earlier!
Your earlier description of the 'keeper' was actually a description of the 'registered keeper'.

However, that's all irrelevant for monzaman1974 so let's stop derailing his thread.

oh dear the beer I had with the football has gone to my typing fingers.......good job someone is alert!! anyway back to the thread........he he he

There are two forms of Keeper

1. Registered Keeper. Not necessarary the owner but the person who's name appears on the logbook. Think of an extemely large organization, the Royal mail for example. The person who is in ultimate control name is not on the log book, it's some director of transport.

2. Keeper. This is the person who has control of the vehicle at the time of it being in their posession. Be it driven by them, or in a parking space, but that vehicle must be in their control.

many thanks for your help. I'm going to be exploring all avenues before the scammers part me of my lively hood and my hard earned money.

Thanks again from Monza

Good thats why we are all here!!! Thats what I meant.........but I am not feeling that clear tonight - beer and football ........sorry!!

Post your progress by finding this thread again so the forum can help (or hinder in my case!)

Good luck

Still no news as of yet, I didn't expect there to be yet anyway

I'm not sure if I was driving that van on the day in question, even though I have been in the vacinityof the alleged offence around that time! but I'm not too sure when and where exactly.

I'll let everybody know what happens as soon as I can.

One again, thanks for your advice.

Keep up the good work. From Monza

Well as from the 22nd of this month this offence has timed out!!!

Has anyone got any tips on what I should include in my letter informing them of the facts?

Many thanks. (Thanks again for everybodies help )

From Monzaman

Well what do you all think I should do next?

Shall I ignore them and let them make the next move? Or shall I send them a letter stating that this offence has "Timed out"?

Cheers. From Monz

Are you in the habit of going round poking wasps nests with a stick? I would ignore them UNLESS they contact you again, remember the courts have been known to collude with the scammers and backdate summonses, so the more time that goes by without a summons the stronger your case would be if they realised they had messed up and tried to send you an invite for tea and cakes with the beak!!

Thanks for the reply, but how can a court back date this type of summons when it already timed out, where this is against the law to do so.

It is also against the law to lie in court whilst under oath but that does not stop the scammers and BiB twisting the truth, lying and only teling half the story when giving evidence, they will try almost anything to get a conviction even if their evidence is flawed or just plain wrong, it would only take a (prosecution)sympathetic court official to backdate when the summons was laid in the court records and you would be stuffed, so why remind them that you have beaten the system, just enjoy your triumph, after all if they think too many summonses are timing out they might start tighteninmg their procedures up and another legitimate avenue to beat the scammers may be lost