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MatchlessG80
I am still a newbie, but would like some advice on signs. I have complained to a few places about signs for parking where the 'terms and conditions' signs are placed about 7 feet high and often written in very small font. As far as I can tell there is no legislation governing signs, but surely the basic principal is that they should be readable - especially if one is supposed to be entering into a contact based on the terms and conditions displayed. Signs at this height and in small font are not readable as far as I can tell - I am average height and have fairly good eyesight and I cannot read them. Tesco (one of the users of this design of signs) say that their signs are 'legal' whatever that means and that the hight is determined by a 'risk assessment' - presumably the risk of being sued if someone bangs their head on them. I should say that is query does not relate to any outstanding 'invoice' from Tesco regarding parking, but they are just an example of the use of this kind of sign. I would rather not use places who use private parking companies, but if I have to at least I would like to know what sort of contract I am entering into with them. If they base the design on council parking signs then this would seem inappropriate as council signs normally just say 'No Parking' or 'No parking between 8am and 6pm- so not a lot of information needed, unlike the reams of information needed on private notices.
ostell
The "Contract" is created by being able to read the sign, sorted out in a court case some time ago. If you can't read the sign then there can be no contract and therefore they cannot invoice you for a breach of the alleged contract.
MatchlessG80
That's what I would have thought - Tesco seem to think they are fine - Any idea who the parties in the case were so I can quote it back to Tesco? It is of course possible that Tesco don't enforce their parking much - they do give 3 hours I think, and it isn't likely that anyone would normally want to spend three hours in Tesco - it's more the principal really.
Redivi
IIRC from an old thread, complaints to Tesco will be passed to the parking company that will reply on Tesco headed paper

Seven feet is relatively low
I've seen parking signs elsewhere that were at least nine feet high

According to the BPA Minutes November 2015, parking companies don't have the authority to take legal action against Tesco customers for first offences

Umkomaas
Highview are Tesco's preferred parking company. HV enforce the charges - but only against those daft enough/intimidated enough to pay. Any who put together a strong (especially forum-led) challenge to HV will see their PCNs dropped faster than Tesco's share price.

Never seen any pattern of vigorous enforcement and not one single court case. Likely that Tesco are wanting a 'light touch' approach.
MatchlessG80
Yeh, Lidl (Athena, if they still use them) seem to take the same approach as Tesco. Perhaps I am being supremely thick, but as parking invoices are supposed to deter 'inappropriate' use of private land, would a simple solution just be to give a warning for a first 'offence' - this could be sent in the same way as a notice to keeper and act as a sort of 'caution'. Anyone then involved in a 'repeat offence' could then be assumed to have received the terms of the contract through the post and an indication of the likely cost of an invoice. This process and any subsequent action could still be subject to appeal. Just a thought! This is almost the system used by Tesco in a way, except for those who are intimidated into paying - where it is clearly different.
ostell
But keeping the information provided by the DVLA that has been used for a warning for a first offence could be construed as a breach of the DPA as having given the warning there is no reason to keep the data for longer.
Umkomaas
There's no profit in issuing warnings.

Don't lose sight of the fact that PPCs are in the business of car park farming, not car park management.
SchoolRunMum
At a Tesco in Sussex, Highview & Tesco do give a warning on site.

Someone driving a car I know, noticed the other month that when they scanned their receipt to validate parking at the machine (where you put in the first digits of your VRN and a touch screen asks you to validate your car) it said ''you have overstayed on this occasion; don't do it again or you might get a parking charge in the post'' or words to that effect.

The driver laughed of course, but it was an interesting and somewhat 'fair' message at the machine.

However, that Tesco are clueless. Another driver of that car asked at the Tesco CS desk month later, for the car to be added to a white list, due to their mobility & respiratory problems (disability). The girl said firstly that they didn't own the car park. The driver chuckled and asked her to try again because oh yes they do... she then rang the Manager who was clueless about white lists, so (for now) the driver gave up, safe in the knowledge that Highview are easy to beat at appeal, if a PCN ever arrives.

And yes, the signs are high. PPCs would say it's to stop vandals and vigilantes with black spray paint...
MatchlessG80
Ha, Tesco told me the height was based on a 'risk assessment' - it had not occurred to me that could be a risk of them being vandalised.
Churchmouse
QUOTE (MatchlessG80 @ Sun, 22 Apr 2018 - 22:05) *
Ha, Tesco told me the height was based on a 'risk assessment' - it had not occurred to me that could be a risk of them being vandalised.

That may be so, but if they choose to use a font size that a "normal" driver cannot read, that's their problem: no contract would likely have been formed.

--Churchmouse
ford poplar
AFAIK, pedestrian signs have to be min 6'6" AGL for safety reasons.
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