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bluesome
Hello, I need some advice.

Myself and a friend were riding along the A64 towards Scarborough tonight, we entered the section of dual carriageway over Whitwell hill and we were doing about 90 when I noticed a BMW behind me, it was night so all I could see was the the BMW angel eye headlights behind me in my mirrors so I wasnt aware it was a police car. The car was right on my tail and I felt pretty intimidated to be honest and on the single carriageway section towards Malton Bypass I overtook a van so it would be stuck and get off my rear but it overtook too and again was right on my tail so as the road opened again to dual carriageway I booted it to get so distance and the pulled to the N/S lane to let it past at this point the car overtook and I saw the battenburg markings, my mate was some way ahead. The Police car then chased my friend and the blue lights came on.

We pulled in and the copper told us to get in his car and he cautioned us and then told us he is issuing a NIP and we are to go to court to find out our fate.

I am a lorry driver and my licence is absolutely essential for me to be able to work, I already have 3 points for speeding (May this year) (68 in a 60) and sat a speed awareness course for a camera flash at 47 in a 40 in the truck in October time 2016. I'm not sure a claim of hardship will wash as I have no kids, no partner and live with my dad paying rent for a room.

I really need to know what I should do about this. I understand I shouldn't have been speeding but I'm in this situation now and need to do anything I can to save my driving licence.

Thank you in advance.
Logician
It is possible that if you turn up suited and booted, express contrition, explain how your job might be affected and do not try to blame the police for making you speed, you might just get 6 points but much more likely you will be disqualified for a period of 28 to 56 days, and the court may take the view that as a professional driver you should know better. There is not much you can do about this to be honest. In a way a disqualification is better in that if you got 6 points, giving you a total of 9, even the smallest further infringement would see you becoming a totter and probably with a 6 months disqualification, as you say, you are unlikely to win an exceptional hardship argument. (The only time exceptional hardship really applies is for totting)
bluesome
Hello, Thanks for your reply.

There were a few points my friend and I discussed about our encounter last night.

-He first mentioned that while he was on my tail (he would have been close enough to read the BS/ISO sticker on the back of my helmet) that I was wobbling a lot (due to how nervous I was while not knowing who/why someone in a car was so close, I thought at one point due to how the car was tailing me it could be someone looking for a good moment to hijack my bike)
-when writing out the tickets he did not have two duplicate forms, he had three forms he wrote out by hand, gave one to my friend and wrote one as a copy with the same information and one with my information for himself and I had to photograph my form with my phone to have a "copy"
-the option circled was excess speed as expected but the speed we were recorded at was not specified on it.
-he received a call on his radio asking him where he was, he replied he was on the Malton Bypass and made an unrelated jokey comment, no mention was made of us or our vehicles (when I was stopped with a missing L plate before I passed my test all my vehicle details were radioed to be checked on the PNC.)

Is this how it goes down generally nowadays?

Thanks in advance.
peterguk
QUOTE (bluesome @ Sat, 9 Sep 2017 - 18:01) *
Is this how it goes down generally nowadays?


Sounds normal.
samthecat
None of that really makes any difference to the speeding allegation.

In terms of paperwork you don't have to be given any at the time, regards the PNC check this could well have been done whilst following you.
Logician
None of that helps at all. I'm afraid. There is no doubt about the limit and the officer can give credible evidence of your speed, that is all that matters in this case.
fedup2
Had you not been speeding at the time of the car behind approaching you then you might have got some sympathy in court saying you upped your speed in fear of....
But you were well over at that point so its not going to fly.

After that its all bad news,anything over 6 points as a lorry driver is likely to cause some issues a ban is obviously fatal to work,but if you have a good day in court you might just be able to hold on to your licence although,courts dont seem to like bikers too much.

BMW's are about their most favourite police car,id have been on caution by the fact it was approaching at all at that speed ,but i guess you know that now.




bluesome
My friend and I will now have to accept that we are in for a rough ride and will seek legal advice to try to save as much as possible from the flamethrower the court is obviously going to turn on us, Thanks for your replies all. The waiting game commences in earnest.
peterguk
QUOTE (bluesome @ Sun, 10 Sep 2017 - 12:29) *
The waiting game commences in earnest.


Expect the summons to take anything up to 6 months to arrive.
Logician
It is a waste of money to instruct a solicitor for a guilty plea, save it for the fine. The court will not turn a flamethrower on you, that is a misapprehension.
bluesome
Hello,

I was caught at 110 mph on my motorbike in September (unable to find previous topic) I have now received my paperwork. Since the offence I have lost my job as a HGV driver and no have no income temporarily, I was was too tired and stressed at work wondering how this was going to affect said work and had an accident worse than the two reversing in yard accidents in previous weeks, I wasn't sacked but I was advised by my doctor to change to a day job from long distance so as that wasn't available at my current employer I felt I had to leave.

The statement by the police officer has factual inaccuracies including the date, the first line of his statement says that the offence took place in February, it was September and my mates bike changes from a 600 to a 1000 and back again. Do I just send the form off and plead guilty even though the officer couldn't be bothered to proof read his "statement". He also claims that his camera car is calibrated in Nottingham, a fair journey from it's home cop shop, don't these require daily calibration?

I don't want to have to just eat a crap sandwich if there is any possible hope of killing this dead and being able to get on with life without this over my head for the next 4 years.

Thanks in advance.
baggins1234
Speedo will be calibrated by IRS Nottingham on first being fitted normally and no, they don’t require daily calibration.

So nothing worth exploring there probably
bluesome
What about the incorrect date on the statement? The officer says that it was 8th February 17 when the offence took place when it was 8th September. It's not written numerical ie. 08/02/17. it is written as 08 February 17 so there is no way he couldn't have noticed that writing it out and he has signed it as stated at the top of the statement.

Thanks
Jlc
As you will recall the incident this ‘error’ does not disadvantage you.

You could plead not guilty and call the officer to court for the date to be corrected and you’ll pay a large costs bill too.

If you know you were doing that excess then plead guilty. A ban is likely.
bluesome
OK, it seems my best course of action is to plead guilty by post and hope for the least worst punishment. I have put that in mitigation my skill as a HGV driver is at risk and that I have lost my employment in the intervening weeks and am unable to secure alternative employment until I know what my punishment is to be. I have expressed how I understand that I have behaved selfishly and that I am being treated for stress due to said actions consequences thus far.

I don't hold up much hope for a non crippling end to this but the night is always darkest before dawn

Thanks for all who replied's sage advice

It's up to the judge now

Cheers.
Irksome
Hang on, a slip on the statement is one thing, but substantial inaccuracies must cast doubt on the officer's ability to recall the events? Getting the date wrong by 6 months must cast doubt on the other statements of fact? Surely this is the sort of thing that Mr Loophole and his cohorts go to town on, and in some cases can get cases dismissed?
southpaw82
QUOTE (Irksome @ Sun, 19 Nov 2017 - 19:15) *
Hang on, a slip on the statement is one thing, but substantial inaccuracies must cast doubt on the officer's ability to recall the events? Getting the date wrong by 6 months must cast doubt on the other statements of fact? Surely this is the sort of thing that Mr Loophole and his cohorts go to town on, and in some cases can get cases dismissed?

So when the officer is asked to account for the discrepancy and says he's very sorry but he simply re-used a template statement but here are his notes made at the time showing the correct details where will that leave the OP?
Irksome
I would expect a decent solicitor to then draw the attention of the bench to the other inaccuracies contained in the statement and to suggest that the even if not fatal to the case it must cast doubt on the officers ability to recall the details of the incident leading to at least a Newton hearing on the alleged speed?
southpaw82
QUOTE (Irksome @ Sun, 19 Nov 2017 - 19:38) *
I would expect a decent solicitor to then draw the attention of the bench to the other inaccuracies contained in the statement and to suggest that the even if not fatal to the case it must cast doubt on the officers ability to recall the details of the incident leading to at least a Newton hearing on the alleged speed?

I'm not sure what doubt is cast in the face of contemporaneous notes. Without having such disclosure you're treading a dangerous path there.
Irksome
Yes, so you'd request disclosure of the officer's notes and statement of when those notes were made as they are critical to the basis of this defence, along with a statement as to when (how much later) those notes were actually made. As the case is going to court in any case I don't see that the OP is going to be disadvantaged by exploring the possibility of mounting such a defence.
NewJudge
QUOTE (Irksome @ Sun, 19 Nov 2017 - 20:10) *
As the case is going to court in any case I don't see that the OP is going to be disadvantaged by exploring the possibility of mounting such a defence.


Assuming you mean a defence against the allegation as a whole and not just a dispute over the alleged speed, in the event of a conviction he'd be disadvantaged to the tune of about an extra £535 (costs) and an extra 50% on the fine and surcharge (discount for a guilty plea).
southpaw82
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sun, 19 Nov 2017 - 20:40) *
QUOTE (Irksome @ Sun, 19 Nov 2017 - 20:10) *
As the case is going to court in any case I don't see that the OP is going to be disadvantaged by exploring the possibility of mounting such a defence.


Assuming you mean a defence against the allegation as a whole and not just a dispute over the alleged speed, in the event of a conviction he'd be disadvantaged to the tune of about an extra £535 (costs) and an extra 50% on the fine and surcharge (discount for a guilty plea).

I suspect Irksome is hoping the notes would be disclosed in advance of having to enter a plea. Whether they would form part of the initial disclosed is anyone's guess.
bluesome
As it is I do not have the sort of money to risk fighting this as even though the officer's statement could be somewhat discredited the video would be damning no matter what I think as to the tactics used to video It, I can't apply for work as a lorry driver at the moment as a potential ban would see me back on the scrap heap.

The "man" has me cornered and I think it would be prudent to take the punch on the chin and drive very carefully as much as I would love to destroy the case and leave unscathed the likelihood is too scant to really risk it.

Thanks

innocentdevil
I know of a friend who was last year caught by a mobile speed camera van near York doing 125 in a 70MPH.
He was summoned to court which he attended.

He came back out with 42 Days Ban and £250 Fine.
Good Luck
bluesome
Hello,

My previous thread is unavailable as far as I can see, I wanted to ask questions about the court hearing I will be attending on May 11th. I intend to plead guilty but I am in a corner. 6 points would put me up to 9 points and render me unemployable even as an agency driver as I currently work (I lost my full time artic lorry job when I disclosed that I may be banned or be left with 9 points, 9 points would be beyond their insurance and they were not willing to cover me with a relief driver for a 56 day ban).

As it stands at the moment I feel that I need as short a ban as possible as points would be the only sticking point but how would I be able to swerve the Magistrate towards a ban with as short a period as possible rather than points without looking like I'm trying to tell them how to do their job and appearing disrespectful of the court. 2 - 3 weeks would be (barely) manageable but 6 weeks would cause me problems as I would have no means to work without my licence.

I do not intend to cause them any problems, I will plead guilty and my employer (Temp Agency Franchise Owner) is willing to write a character statement.

If my previous thread cannot be added to this post let me know and I'll add the particulars.

Thanks in advance.

The Rookie
Still there
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=115671&hl=

I think a ban is odds on to be honest.

Something like “I fully expect to be banned for speed I was doing, that the speed was irresponsible and that a ban is the only sensible punishment”.
Logician
I would be quite open about it, along the lines of "I realise my speed was grossly excessive and you will be considering disqualifying me today, I ask you to make the period as short as you feel able because as a professional driver I shall be unable to work for that time. As I am a professional driver, I respectively request that you do disqualify me and not give me what I understand might be the alternative of six points. As I have three points currently, a further six would put me on nine points, and that would make me unemployable because it would be beyond the number that a commercial insurer would accept."

You might feel it appropriate to add something like "This incident has really brought home to me the importance of my licence to me, and I am determined that I will never again put my livelihood at risk by driving so irresponsibly as I did on this occasion"
bluesome
I would be happy to give a blow by blow of the Court hearing and how it was held if it may be of some help to others as to what to expect in court afterward. I have a feeling I will have some time on my hands to write such a thing.

notmeatloaf
Have you checked that they would still employ you with a ban? It would still need to be disclosed as it will be on your DVLA electronic record for four years.

At least with car insurance insurers seem to view a ban as less favourable compared to points.
bluesome
I've had one firm I was placed at say that once the outcome is known I'd be able to apply, but they are unwilling to unless they know what I will be slapped with, I assume that if it turns out to be points they'd finish me and they don't want to be covering a ban. Looking at insurance the quotes are somehow cheaper than I am currently paying...go figure... The Agency say that most firms won't take people with more than 6 points unless their arm is heavily twisted but points seem to be all haulage firms seem to care about. a ban would mean that once spent I won't have any more points and that would be fine as long as I can keep it under 3 weeks as I won't be able to keep myself covered financially much longer than that.
NewJudge
QUOTE (bluesome @ Sun, 22 Apr 2018 - 16:23) *
...a ban would mean that once spent I won't have any more points and that would be fine as long as I can keep it under 3 weeks as I won't be able to keep myself covered financially much longer than that.

But a ban (or more properly the conviction that led to it) is not "spent" as soon as it is completed. Just as a conviction which attracted points stays on your driving record for four years (with the points being active for totting up purposes for three) so does a conviction which attracted a ban - however short the ban was. I would be very surprised if an employer (or their insurers) considered that a conviction that was dealt with by, say, a two week ban, was no longer relevant once the two weeks had been served.
notmeatloaf
I should just add (for clarity) you will still have the 3 points even after a ban. It's a totting ban which effectively wipes the slate clean.

Also the sentencing guidelines are to disqualify for 7-28 days for up to 100 and for 101 and over either 6pts or disqualify for 7-56 days. As you were well above 101 you would be lucky to only get 21 days.

It could be worthwhile looking at a different, non-driving job if your finances are precarious because you would be taking a big risk that the court will give you a convenient sentence for you.
The Rookie
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sun, 22 Apr 2018 - 18:43) *
Also the sentencing guidelines are to disqualify for 7-28 days for up to 100 and for 101 and over either 6pts or disqualify for 7-56 days.

Actually the guidance is Disqualify 7 – 56 days OR 6 points, psychologically the inference is the ban should be considered first not points, it was reversed in the last change of guidelines as I recall.
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