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Leatherlip
Hello team,

Hope everyone is well

After some advice - the driver parked in a marked bay in Turnmill street in the early hours of the morning, when the driver returned back to their car their was a PCN code 12.

It’s a one way street and where they parked there is no signage to state that it is a residents bay or shared use parking place etc.

There are also 4 other bays but they have scaffolding over them and this is the only one that is free that is in front of Nando’s.

The driver only on opening the PCN is now aware that the space is a code 12 bay. The driver then went looking around the area for signage.

There are other bays within the street that clearly state permit holder or pay for 2 hours, some are loading bays which you can park in after 6.30pm (which the driver does now) if the driver would have know it was a code 12 bay they wouldn’t have parked in it.

Can any one help with the appeal? It will be based on lack of signage but I just don’t know how to write it.

I’ll try and attach some photos


stamfordman
You don't need to keep saying ' the driver' - on the council forum it's fine to say 'I'.

Hope you got some pics of the bay. If there is no sign controlling the bay then you should win. I imagine it's hidden by the scaffolding or been taken down. Either way it has to be visible and clearly applicable to where you parked.

use an external pic site such as Imgrur or Flickr for pics.

To get council pics you'll have to email Islington - this is worth doing in this case and I think islington will put the case on hold at discount.
stamfordman
Looking on street view from last Sept the sign was there but it's it's hard to see how the council can say it applies.

hcandersen
Let's wait for the all-important council photos.
stamfordman
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 9 Feb 2018 - 10:28) *
Let's wait for the all-important council photos.



It's Islington - their online system has been down for ages and the OP will have to ask for them.

Islington I think will agree to put it on hold.
Leatherlip
Thanks for your replies.

I’m so used to saying driver 🙄 lol

They took some photos of the area once they had the PCN. There was no signs on entry to the road saying it’s controlled parking etc and no signs around the scaffolding, they will check again tonight but either still it’s not clearly visible if there is.

I didn’t realise I could request photos/video footage online and just done this and received an email stating it can take up to 1 month for a response. The appeal has to be in before Tuesday 13th to remain at the lower cost which is a bit naughty. Surly they should state that if you request the images that the appeal will be put on hold and a new time scale givinen for the appeal. Grrrrr
Mad Mick V
Parked here at one in the morning:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Turnmil...33;4d-0.1053165

Signs are inadequate IMO and not visible at that time of a morning. Are they illuminated?

The other issue-- --the bays are suspended (where the scaffolding is) so can this be used to cast doubt on the sign?

Mick
Leatherlip
QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Fri, 9 Feb 2018 - 17:03) *
Parked here at one in the morning:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Turnmil...33;4d-0.1053165

Signs are inadequate IMO and not visible at that time of a morning. Are they illuminated?

Mick


He was parked exactly where that yellow one is on google maps.

No lights illuminate the signs and there are none near the bay in which he parked, they are all else where in other bays 😬

There’s signs that state 4 bays are suspended and scaffolding over 4 bays and this one was free. He is sure that there is no sign under the scaffolding and if it is it wasn’t clearly visible as he parked there.

I need to write up his appeal but don’t know how best to write it other than there’s no signs to state it’s a code 12 bay no repeater signs and no large signs on the EnTerence to the one way street stipulating controlled parking zones which u would also
Expect?



cp8759
For the sake of a informal representations there's no need to get too technical, just state the contravention did not occur as there was no visible signage, you looked around and couldn't see any signs so you assumed the bay was not controlled.
Wretched Rectum
"7.50 ----------The first sign should be no more than 15 m from the end of the bay."

This the the DfT recommendation. You were parked at one end of the bay. Was a sign placed within 15m of it?
Leatherlip
QUOTE (Wretched Rectum @ Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 00:48) *
"7.50 ----------The first sign should be no more than 15 m from the end of the bay."

This the the DfT recommendation. You were parked at one end of the bay. Was a sign placed within 15m of it?


Sorry for late reply.

I asked him and he said he didn’t see and when he had a walk around didn’t notice any. Someone posted a sign up in between the scaffolding from google maps from September.

His checked again and the sign is hidden in between the scaffolding
cp8759
QUOTE (Leatherlip @ Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 18:42) *
His checked again and the sign is hidden in between the scaffolding ������

Can he provide an up to date photo?
stamfordman
Would he like a cup of tea while we talk to you?
Leatherlip
We don’t live in the local area. He just started a new job as a night worker . He took photos at the time but his always been useless at taking half decent photos. I’ll post all I’ve got.

I dare ask if he would like a cup of tea and he would always have one espically if I’m making, I don’t tend to get notifications for reply’s for some reason even tho I’m sure I selected it

* won’t let me upload pics from the hosting site I think it’s because I’m not on WiFi? I’ll try when I get home**

In one of the photos he took of the suspension sign after someone pointed the sign from google maps you could see the sign posted up just about in the back ground so the sign would be located right in the middle of the scaffolding right up against it and then the scaffolding is built over it covering the 4 other bays and it’s used as a pedistrian walk way, if that makes sense
hcandersen
IMO, this is wasting time, and it's running out.

OP, submit a challenge no later than TOMORROW, as this would hold the discount.

It is the authority's obligation to prove, not yours to disprove. Let's stop beating ourselves up about photos which you do not have:

The contravention did not occur because there was no traffic sign indicating that the location was restricted at that time.The driver looked extensively for a sign both in the immediate vicinity of the car and beyond, but saw none. If there was one, then it must have been obscured by the scaffolding or removed when this was erected.
Leatherlip
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sun, 11 Feb 2018 - 09:43) *
IMO, this is wasting time, and it's running out.

OP, submit a challenge no later than TOMORROW, as this would hold the discount.

It is the authority's obligation to prove, not yours to disprove. Let's stop beating ourselves up about photos which you do not have:

The contravention did not occur because there was no traffic sign indicating that the location was restricted at that time.The driver looked extensively for a sign both in the immediate vicinity of the car and beyond, but saw none. If there was one, then it must have been obscured by the scaffolding or removed when this was erected.


Brilliant thank you. I will be submitting the appeal later this evening 👍🏻

Leatherlip
I have contacted Islington council in relation to the evidence provided by the CEO as the email states it will take up to 1 month to receive. They have confirmed that the charge notice is put on hold until such time the evidence is supplied, so I am not going to await these before submitting an appeal .
cp8759
QUOTE (Leatherlip @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 09:49) *
They have confirmed that the charge notice is put on hold until such time the evidence is supplied, so I am not going to await these before submitting an appeal .

Do you have that in writing?
stamfordman
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 16:40) *
QUOTE (Leatherlip @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 09:49) *
They have confirmed that the charge notice is put on hold until such time the evidence is supplied, so I am not going to await these before submitting an appeal .

Do you have that in writing?



He says he's not going to wait but like you I read it as he is...

I wouldn't wait - slap in a challenge and they will no doubt supply pics when/if they reject in the letter, which is what they usually do.
hcandersen
Exactly.
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