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Full Version: [NIP Wizard] Speeding but for a good reason and quite safely I think!
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
worried0808
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2017
Date of the NIP: - 156 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 157 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A5 at Ty Nant, Dinmael. County of Conway
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I was driving my Mercedes Vito 122 CDI Dualliner A Van. This van has 5 seats and has side windows. I was under the impression that my van is classed as car derived van. I was not aware that the speed limit for my van was actually 50 miles per hour.
I was working in North Wales but I live in Yorkshire. I was in a convoy with my work colleagues and we were heading to our overnight accommodation. Unfortunately I got stuck behind a tractor and I lost sight of my colleagues vehicle. As I got to the top of the hill the road was clear and I could see what I thought was their vehicle in the distance. I accelerated in order to try and catch them up as I had no idea where we were stay that night and I was not familiar with the area.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - Unsure
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Wales

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 15:21:03 +0000
BaggieBoy
However safe does not make it legal, I'm afraid your reason for speeding would never get you found not guilty in court. What speed is alleged?

So what stage is this at? A full story would be good.
jewels2009
Is the car leased, whose the RK, filled out correctly ?
There has to be a reason for the delay in nip being received by you.

Trying to catch a friend up the road is however a non starter in so many ways for an explanation of why you were speeding. I would drop that instantly.

What speed were you doing exactly?, as the excess dictates further developments.

You need to confirm back confirmation that you were the driver on the form provided within 28 days.S.172 .
Jlc
QUOTE (worried0808 @ Wed, 31 Jan 2018 - 15:21) *
I was driving my Mercedes Vito 122 CDI Dualliner A Van. This van has 5 seats and has side windows. I was under the impression that my van is classed as car derived van. I was not aware that the speed limit for my van was actually 50 miles per hour.

Do you know the maximum laden weight? (I suspect its over 2 tonnes)

What does the v5 state?

Info here.

QUOTE (worried0808 @ Wed, 31 Jan 2018 - 15:21) *
I was working in North Wales but I live in Yorkshire. I was in a convoy with my work colleagues and we were heading to our overnight accommodation. Unfortunately I got stuck behind a tractor and I lost sight of my colleagues vehicle. As I got to the top of the hill the road was clear and I could see what I thought was their vehicle in the distance. I accelerated in order to try and catch them up as I had no idea where we were stay that night and I was not familiar with the area.

Absolutely, zero chance of running this as a defence.
NewJudge
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 31 Jan 2018 - 16:23) *
QUOTE (worried0808 @ Wed, 31 Jan 2018 - 15:21) *
I was working in North Wales but I live in Yorkshire. I was in a convoy with my work colleagues and we were heading to our overnight accommodation. Unfortunately I got stuck behind a tractor and I lost sight of my colleagues vehicle. As I got to the top of the hill the road was clear and I could see what I thought was their vehicle in the distance. I accelerated in order to try and catch them up as I had no idea where we were stay that night and I was not familiar with the area.

Absolutely, zero chance of running this as a defence.


Indeed not. However, you have 28 days to respond to the request for driver's details. If it was posted on day 156 it is assumed to be "served" on day 158 (or even 159 if 158 was not a working day). Twenty-eight days after day 158 is day 186 - a trifle over six months. A prosecution must be started in court within six months of the alleged offence. Check all the dates carefully. Unless I've missed something obvious - or got my "sums" wrong - if you take your time in replying no prosecution will be possible. You must still respond to the request, nonetheless.
localdriver
A Vito Dualiner will be a Dual Purpose Vehicle if it complies with reg 3, The Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986 (many do comply). It is not a Car Derived Van.

Neither are subject to the goods vehicle speed limit.
worried0808
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Wed, 31 Jan 2018 - 16:41) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 31 Jan 2018 - 16:23) *
QUOTE (worried0808 @ Wed, 31 Jan 2018 - 15:21) *
I was working in North Wales but I live in Yorkshire. I was in a convoy with my work colleagues and we were heading to our overnight accommodation. Unfortunately I got stuck behind a tractor and I lost sight of my colleagues vehicle. As I got to the top of the hill the road was clear and I could see what I thought was their vehicle in the distance. I accelerated in order to try and catch them up as I had no idea where we were stay that night and I was not familiar with the area.

Absolutely, zero chance of running this as a defence.


Indeed not. However, you have 28 days to respond to the request for driver's details. If it was posted on day 156 it is assumed to be "served" on day 158 (or even 159 if 158 was not a working day). Twenty-eight days after day 158 is day 186 - a trifle over six months. A prosecution must be started in court within six months of the alleged offence. Check all the dates carefully. Unless I've missed something obvious - or got my "sums" wrong - if you take your time in replying no prosecution will be possible. You must still respond to the request, nonetheless.


Thank you for your reply.
It states on the form "You now have 21 days to plead guilty or not guilty to the charge"
At the top is says single justice procedure. Do they do things differently in Wales maybe?

Jlc
So it’s not a NIP.

How did the matter get to court? Did you indicate you’d defend it? (Or reject any course/fixed penalty?)

The 6 months limit doesn’t apply to you...

...or was the excess too much? (What is the alleged speed)
BaggieBoy
Instead of drip feeding us information please tell us what happened with a timeline, and we still have no idea what speed is alleged. Is the only charge on the SJPN speeding?
NewJudge
QUOTE (worried0808 @ Wed, 31 Jan 2018 - 17:45) *
Thank you for your reply.
It states on the form "You now have 21 days to plead guilty or not guilty to the charge"
At the top is says single justice procedure. Do they do things differently in Wales maybe?


Indeed. Sorry to have got your hopes up, but you did say it was a NIP you had received.


QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Wed, 31 Jan 2018 - 18:09) *
Instead of drip feeding us information please tell us what happened with a timeline, and we still have no idea what speed is alleged. Is the only charge on the SJPN speeding?


Yes we need to know exactly what has happened. They do not do things differently in Wales. If speeding is the only offence you face then somehow they have evidence to show you were the driver. How did they get that? What has gone on before this Single Justice Procedure Notice?
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