Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Parking ticket hell
FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
Scarlett
HELP! I need some advice because this is driving me nuts…

In 2004 my now ex-partner managed to get three parking tickets in Southwark whilst using my car, and hid the evidence from me – this is relatively easily done as all the correspondence for that particular vehicle arrives with my name spelt incorrectly. I did not find out about the PCNs until my partner and I had acrimoniously split and I received letters from the bailiffs. They were not just the first letters either, the bailiffs had obviously called round on other occasions as the amounts due were really high.

To cut a long story short, I had to sign statutory declarations to say I had not received any of the PCNs etc, which the court accepted. The court told me that the orders for recovery were cancelled but this did not mean the PCNs were cancelled and that was up to the council that issued the ticket. The same day, I received 3 newly-issued NTOs from Southwark for £100 each. This was the first notification which contained the actual details of the contravention, and the amounts due for each one.

I immediately wrote a very polite letter to Southwark Council and asked them to consider letting me pay at the discounted rate within 14 days of the date of issue of these NTOs, as they were the first notification I had received. I enclosed three cheques of £50 each, which came out of my account within the 14 days. I didn’t hear anything further from Southwark Council, so I considered the matter settled.

Until about a month ago (over a year later) I received another bailiff’s notice, this time requiring £289 per PCN. I immediately contacted the bailiffs to say that I thought the matter had been resolved. They told me to contact the council, but the council has written to me and said:

“LBS received authorisation from HMCS in Northampton to recover the outstanding debt through bailiff action. If you are appealing bailiff intervention the council cannot enter into any further correspondence. You must deal with the bailiff company concerned.”

I really don’t know what to do now as I sent an offer of settlement for each NTO and I feel that the council banking those cheques should constitute an acceptance of that offer. If they had written back to me and said that they weren’t accepting my offer, I would have paid the outstanding amount, but I don’t think it is fair to have bailiffs knocking on my door a year later asking for exorbitant amounts. The bailiffs are telling me to deal with the council, the council are telling me to deal with the bailiffs. ARGH!

What should/can I do?! Any advice appreciated.
Ziltro
Hi there! This country is great, isn't it? rolleyes.gif

QUOTE (Scarlett @ Mon, 5 Jun 2006 - 15:48) *
HELP! I need some advice because this is driving me nuts…

In 2004 my now ex-partner managed to get three parking tickets in Southwark whilst using my car

So what has this got to do with you?
Sorry, that sounded rude! smile.gif

What I mean is, it is the driver's responsibility to park legally. You can't be held accountable for someone else's actions, even as you are (presumably) the registered keeper. So why are they harassing you over something which you didn't do and have no responsibility over?

And I'm sure someone will correct me if I got that wrong. smile.gif

Sounds as it has all gotten a bit too far though sad.gif
Scarlett
Thanks for the reply...

I'm no longer in touch with my ex, I have no way of contacting him about this anyway (no that I would want to) and there's no way he'd pay anyway. I assumed because I'm the registered owner of the vehicle, that I am liable for any PCNs???

Haven't I kind of already admitted responsibility by entering into correspondence with the council etc and paying the first £50 for each PCN?

I'm confused, and I just want this to go away!

Can I appeal to anyone else? Northampton Crown Court? PATAS? I just don't know where to go from here...
zamzara
QUOTE (Ziltro @ Mon, 5 Jun 2006 - 16:21) *
What I mean is, it is the driver's responsibility to park legally. You can't be held accountable for someone else's actions, even as you are (presumably) the registered keeper. So why are they harassing you over something which you didn't do and have no responsibility over?


For council tickets, the law says that the RK is responsible, unjust as it is.

Perhaps this is something the ECHR etc should be looking at? Unfortunately they seem to have bought into the whole 'decriminalised/civil offence' bollocks.
Ziltro
QUOTE (zamzara @ Mon, 5 Jun 2006 - 16:45) *
For council tickets, the law says that the RK is responsible, unjust as it is.

ohmy.gif oops! sad.gif

That's a pile of poo. What are the RK's responsibilities? Is it like a S172 request where it's for information, or is the RK actually responsible for illegal parking of someone who they may never have even met but is allowed to drive the vehicle? (Thinking car hire firms there)
DW190
QUOTE (Ziltro @ Mon, 5 Jun 2006 - 16:56) *
QUOTE (zamzara @ Mon, 5 Jun 2006 - 16:45) *
For council tickets, the law says that the RK is responsible, unjust as it is.

ohmy.gif oops! sad.gif

That's a pile of poo. What are the RK's responsibilities? Is it like a S172 request where it's for information, or is the RK actually responsible for illegal parking of someone who they may never have even met but is allowed to drive the vehicle? (Thinking car hire firms there)


Car Hire firms have to have a "Statement of Liability" from the hirer.


QUOTE
ROAD TRAFFIC OFFENDERS ACT 1988: s. 66(3)


Statement of Liability



PART I
I hereby acknowledge that during the currency of [the hiring agreement above] [my hiring agreement with

(name and address of firm) for the period

], and for the purposes of sections 62 to 68 of, and Schedule 4 to, the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, I shall be liable as the owner of vehicle, registration mark

, in respect of -

(a) any of the following offences which may be committed with respect to that vehicle when it is stationary and when a fixed penalty notice is issued: being on a road during the hours of darkness without the lights or reflectors required by law; waiting, or being left or parked, or being loaded or unloaded, in a road; being used or kept on a public road without the vehicle licence being exhibited on the vehicle in the prescribed manner; and the non-payment of the charge made at a street parking place; and

(b) any excess charge which may be incurred in pursuance of an order under sections 45 and 46 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (provision on highways of parking places where charges are made).

[I also acknowledge that this liability shall extend to any other vehicle let to me under the same hiring agreement and to any period by which the original period of hiring may be extended.]


(signature)




(date)
Scarlett
So no advice on what I can do from here?
Wayne Pendle
It is the owner who is responsible for any tickets, not the driver, nor the registered keeper. It shall be presumed that the owner was the person in whose name the vehicle was at the time registered under the vehicle (excise) act 1971, it's a cop out but then there you go.

If you have made a stat dec, then a new notice to owner would have had to be provided. If you have not had one, then you have been predjudiced as you have not had the option to appeal. Also, if they have spelt you name incorretly, all you have to do at appeal, is say I don't know, nor have I ever heard of the person to whom these letters have been addressed to.
Scarlett
QUOTE (Wayne Pendle @ Tue, 6 Jun 2006 - 11:50) *
If you have made a stat dec, then a new notice to owner would have had to be provided. If you have not had one, then you have been predjudiced as you have not had the option to appeal. Also, if they have spelt you name incorretly, all you have to do at appeal, is say I don't know, nor have I ever heard of the person to whom these letters have been addressed to.


They sent out new NTOs, to which I immediately responded. I sent 3 cheques for £50, asking for the opportunity to pay the reduced fines within 14 days, as I would have if I had received the original PCNs. The council cashed the cheques within the 14 days, so I considered the matter closed. I didn't hear anything further until the bailiffs' notice requiring £285 per PCN a year later!

I don't know who to appeal to now, as I feel I'm being harrassed to pay more money on tickets that weren't even mine to begin with. I feel that I satisfied my obligation to pay with the £50 cheques. How am I supposed to know that the Council rejected my offer when they went ahead and cashed the cheques, but don't write to me and tell me that?!
Scarlett
Right, I want to try and appeal after reading Lukha, where she didn't receive the PCN and didn't get the chance to pay at the discounted rate.

I paid £50 on each within 14 days of receiving the first NTOs and I feel that was fair in the circumstances.

Can anyone advise me on who I should appeal to now after Southwark Council? NPAS? PATAS? Or Northampton County Court?
johnjames
It would be interesting to see both the Notice to Onwers they sent you and all other paperwork. If this is wrong then there might be a chance. There are various sites you can upload and and then place a link. IMHO if they re-issued and the Baliffs chase then there is something drastically wrong when you paid them.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.