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18hundred
What is the difference between waiting and parking? A few previous posts from around the web sai there’s no difference but I can’t believe that.

Do I need to be sitting in the car for it to count as waiting? If not, how long can I leave the car for before it becomes parking? I saw a sign today that had waiting restrictions from 7:30 to 10 and then 4:30 to 7. Does that mean I can leave my car there between 10 and 4:30 and it can’t be ticketed? That sounds an awful lot like parking to me...
DancingDad
QUOTE (18hundred @ Sat, 30 Dec 2017 - 17:08) *
What is the difference between waiting and parking? A few previous posts from around the web sai there’s no difference but I can’t believe that.

Do I need to be sitting in the car for it to count as waiting? If not, how long can I leave the car for before it becomes parking? I saw a sign today that had waiting restrictions from 7:30 to 10 and then 4:30 to 7. Does that mean I can leave my car there between 10 and 4:30 and it can’t be ticketed? That sounds an awful lot like parking to me...


To all intents and purposes, no difference when council PCNs are being handed out.

The restriction on any yellow line is No Waiting.
Makes no difference if you are in the car or not.

And yes, assuming you read sign correctly, no restriction between 10 and 4.30 so can wait as long as you like. Or park smile.gif
southpaw82
Why do you want to know?
Mr Meldrew
A parking place is a place where vehicles, or vehicles of any class, may wait, see Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, Part IV, Parking Places, Provision of off-street parking, and parking on roads without payment, s.32(4)b. So whether you sit in your car or leave it in a parking place, your car is both parked and waiting. You will appreciate that it is what the vehicle is doing, not what the driver is doing.
djtaylor
QUOTE (18hundred @ Sat, 30 Dec 2017 - 17:08) *
I saw a sign today that had waiting restrictions from 7:30 to 10 and then 4:30 to 7. Does that mean I can leave my car there between 10 and 4:30 and it can’t be ticketed? That sounds an awful lot like parking to me...

Not uncommon, particularly to keep roads clear for rush hour or around railway stations to prevent commuters parking all day nearby. Where I used to live, it was first half of the day until noon on one side of the road, then noon onwards on the other side of the same street. Similarly, parking from 6pm until some time early morning before rush hour isn't uncommon, just look at the signs.
18hundred
Thanks everyone for their replies on this. I'm looking through the rules in Know Your Signs, which is causing me a bit of confusion about terminology.

Just as a quick summary:

Double yellow: No waiting at any time
Single yellow: Waiting is not permitted in the times shown on the sign
Double yellow on kerb: No loading at any time
Single yellow on kerb: Loading is not permitted in the times shown on the sign (this may even be on a double yellow line not permitting waiting)
White box: Parking/loading restrictions and rules shown on the sign

Can I load into my car, or does it have to be a commercial vehicle? (Off topic, but I'm interested now.)

Know Your Signs goes on to talk about clearways and red routes. KYS states that "The red cross means no stopping, not even to pick up or set down passengers" with respect to clear ways and "On red routes...no stopping for any purpose, not even to pick up or set down passengers,"

Does this insinuate that you are able to pick up and set down passengers on both double and single yellow lines? Or is dropping off/picking up included in the definition of waiting, if so, what is the difference between stopping and waiting?
PASTMYBEST
Read the booklet and the highway code, it's in there and will do you more good than asking questions the answer s for which we would garner from said documents or the laws
ford poplar
When did you pass your driving test or are you still a 'learner'?
18hundred
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 31 Dec 2017 - 12:46) *
Read the booklet and the highway code, it's in there and will do you more good than asking questions the answer s for which we would garner from said documents or the laws


Thank you for your help in this matter, however I should inform you that I have read the highway code and Know Your Signs. I thought that would be clear as I have quoted and mentioned it in my previous post a number of times. Let me rephrase the question part of my post, which I was ideally looking for an answer to, as it seems to have caused some confusion:

In the Highway Code and Know Your Signs, there is mention of, parking, waiting and stopping. Does waiting include the picking up and setting down of passengers? If not, am I correct in saying I can drop off passengers, or pick up passengers on a double yellow line or single yellow line within the prohibited waiting times.

The reason I'm unsure of this, is that surely if I pull up at a double yellow line for passengers to get into my vehicle there is a period of time, regardless how short, where I am WAITING for them to get into or out of my car and therefore committing a contravention because I am waiting there.

Perhaps I am over thinking the issue. But it would be rather helpful if the Highway Code explicitly defined exactly what is included in waiting. I've always been lead to believe that you do not stop on double yellows ever, but that seems not to be the case which is exactly why I'm posting here.
DancingDad
On any yellow line you can stop and pick up or drop off passengers.... known as boarding-alighting.
Time allowed is as long as needed but no longer and includes offloading/loading luggage.
But you cannot wait for them to appear or wait, waving fond farewells after they get out the car.

Similar with loading.
Allowed on any yellow line as long as no kerb blips which (along with the relevant pole sign) prohibits loading at that time.
Again, time allowed is as long as needed but no longer.
Some light reading on that....
http://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...ses/LOADADJ.pdf
http://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...r%20Hamlets.pdf

No Stopping means that.
Includes Red Routes usually red lines instead of yellow at kerb, Bus Stops (broad yellow band and yellow box) yellow zigzags usually outside schools (during hours of operation) pedestrian crossing zig zags, No Stopping clearways.... no kerb lines but signs facing traffic... may be some way apart.
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (18hundred @ Sun, 31 Dec 2017 - 14:17) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 31 Dec 2017 - 12:46) *
Read the booklet and the highway code, it's in there and will do you more good than asking questions the answer s for which we would garner from said documents or the laws


Thank you for your help in this matter, however I should inform you that I have read the highway code and Know Your Signs. I thought that would be clear as I have quoted and mentioned it in my previous post a number of times. Let me rephrase the question part of my post, which I was ideally looking for an answer to, as it seems to have caused some confusion:

In the Highway Code and Know Your Signs, there is mention of, parking, waiting and stopping. Does waiting include the picking up and setting down of passengers? If not, am I correct in saying I can drop off passengers, or pick up passengers on a double yellow line or single yellow line within the prohibited waiting times.

The reason I'm unsure of this, is that surely if I pull up at a double yellow line for passengers to get into my vehicle there is a period of time, regardless how short, where I am WAITING for them to get into or out of my car and therefore committing a contravention because I am waiting there.

Perhaps I am over thinking the issue. But it would be rather helpful if the Highway Code explicitly defined exactly what is included in waiting. I've always been lead to believe that you do not stop on double yellows ever, but that seems not to be the case which is exactly why I'm posting here.


If you had read it, you would know it clearly says on page 39 that you may pick up or alight passengers
nigelbb
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 31 Dec 2017 - 15:38) *
No Stopping means that.
Includes Red Routes usually red lines instead of yellow at kerb, Bus Stops (broad yellow band and yellow box) yellow zigzags usually outside schools (during hours of operation) pedestrian crossing zig zags, No Stopping clearways.... no kerb lines but signs facing traffic... may be some way apart.

Only in London (also I think the West Midlands) are there Red Routes with red lines painted on the side of the road to delineate a clearway. Clearways in other areas are less well signed.
DancingDad
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sun, 31 Dec 2017 - 17:05) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 31 Dec 2017 - 15:38) *
No Stopping means that.
Includes Red Routes usually red lines instead of yellow at kerb, Bus Stops (broad yellow band and yellow box) yellow zigzags usually outside schools (during hours of operation) pedestrian crossing zig zags, No Stopping clearways.... no kerb lines but signs facing traffic... may be some way apart.

Only in London (also I think the West Midlands) are there Red Routes with red lines painted on the side of the road to delineate a clearway. Clearways in other areas are less well signed.


West Mids deffo has Red Routes with red lines.
And no stopping clearways with no lines and very few signs, here for instance https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4865516,-...3312!8i6656
andy_foster
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 31 Dec 2017 - 14:54) *
If you had read it, you would know it clearly says on page 39 that you may pick up or alight passengers


I have read all the Famous Five books, but I couldn't tell you what it says on page 39 of any of them.
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sun, 31 Dec 2017 - 18:41) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 31 Dec 2017 - 14:54) *
If you had read it, you would know it clearly says on page 39 that you may pick up or alight passengers


I have read all the Famous Five books, but I couldn't tell you what it says on page 39 of any of them.



but you could research it if you needed to know it's in there. No need for silly questions
18hundred
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 31 Dec 2017 - 19:09) *
but you could research it if you needed to know it's in there. No need for silly questions

I've never understood why people get so worked up about this. Why act all aggressive about it? Why sit around shouting "READ IT AGAIN! READ IT AGAIN!" Is there anything wrong with just saying the following?

"You're looking at the right book, but I think you might have missed it bud, it's on page 39."

Telling someone you know the answer but are unwilling to provide it is less than helpful. I'd say most of your responses have been 'silly' to be honest and you've added nothing but a foul smell to the discussion.

Out of interest, why is this a silly question? DancingDad has provided a very good answer on it which goes far beyond what it says on page 39 of Know Your Signs. I don't see why this is a 'silly question' if can answer like that can be provided (in a well mannered way I'd have to add).
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (18hundred @ Sun, 31 Dec 2017 - 20:30) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 31 Dec 2017 - 19:09) *
but you could research it if you needed to know it's in there. No need for silly questions

I've never understood why people get so worked up about this. Why act all aggressive about it? Why sit around shouting "READ IT AGAIN! READ IT AGAIN!" Is there anything wrong with just saying the following?

"You're looking at the right book, but I think you might have missed it bud, it's on page 39."

Telling someone you know the answer but are unwilling to provide it is less than helpful. I'd say most of your responses have been 'silly' to be honest and you've added nothing but a foul smell to the discussion.

Out of interest, why is this a silly question? DancingDad has provided a very good answer on it which goes far beyond what it says on page 39 of Know Your Signs. I don't see why this is a 'silly question' if can answer like that can be provided (in a well mannered way I'd have to add).


you flatter yourself to think i get worked up about your drivel. The information is there you should take it on board, but your choice I wont be getting a ticket for not understanding a sign. That DD wants to point you in a the right direction is his choice, i would rather tell you where to find it , IMO that will serve you better but c'este a vie
nigelbb
On double yellow lines you can always stop to drop off & pick up passengers. However to add to the confusion those poorly signed Clearways are exactly the same as Red Routes where there are restrictions on passengers alighting/disembarking.but on those poorly signed Urban Clearways you are allowed to drop off & pick up passengers.
DancingDad
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 1 Jan 2018 - 05:09) *
On double yellow lines you can always stop to drop off & pick up passengers. However to add to the confusion those poorly signed Clearways are exactly the same as Red Routes where there are restrictions on passengers alighting/disembarking.but on those poorly signed Urban Clearways you are allowed to drop off & pick up passengers.


The clue is in whether a no stopping or no waiting restriction.
You can generally pick up or drop off passengers on no waiting but no stopping means what it says.
Spotting whether the roundel has a red cross or a single diagonal can be vital.
18hundred
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 1 Jan 2018 - 05:06) *
you flatter yourself to think i get worked up about your drivel. The information is there you should take it on board, but your choice I wont be getting a ticket for not understanding a sign. That DD wants to point you in a the right direction is his choice, i would rather tell you where to find it , IMO that will serve you better but c'este a vie

You pointed me to a total of 296 pages of information of which you're citing 10 words without reference. That is totally useless. These days, pretty much any question can be answered with, 'it's on the internet, look it up'. It's a totally meaningless things to say. As I've already pointed out to you (although you seem to have not read that ironically), I had read through the information, and as it turns out, I've overlooked the 10 lines you could have so easily pointed to but didn't through what seems to be total bitterness.

QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 1 Jan 2018 - 05:06) *
That DD wants to point you in a the right direction is his choice, i would rather tell you where to find it , IMO that will serve you better

I'm not interested what you think will serve me better, I'm interested in the answer to my question, regardless how trivial, or in your own words 'silly' you may think it to be. There are many people on here who have freely volunteered the information without issue, if you are not willing to, don't get involved. In my opinion, that will serve you better....

I don't understand why people sit on information like that running around shouting, "ha ha look at me! I know the answer and you don't!" It's just pathetic.
Mad Mick V
I don't know if this is along the right lines but the Bradford v Obaid case established some ground rules on waiting and stopping.

http://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...hiy%20Obaid.pdf

Mick
southpaw82
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 1 Jan 2018 - 05:06) *
you flatter yourself to think i get worked up about your drivel. The information is there you should take it on board, but your choice I wont be getting a ticket for not understanding a sign. That DD wants to point you in a the right direction is his choice, i would rather tell you where to find it , IMO that will serve you better but c'este a vie

Who urinated in your chips? Wind your neck in.
DancingDad
QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Mon, 1 Jan 2018 - 13:49) *
I don't know if this is along the right lines but the Bradford v Obaid case established some ground rules on waiting and stopping.

http://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...hiy%20Obaid.pdf

Mick


Makda V Parking Adjudicator is another useful guide on waiting, boarding/alighting
http://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...Adjudicator.pdf
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