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Full Version: 111mph on M62, no NIP, just SJP
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Paywajc
Hi Guys.

Before I start I fully admit I was stupid, and deserve whatever comes my way in court, buy have some general questions about the process, I've searched the topics but nothing seems to relate specifically. I've read a lot of the solicitor type websites about 100mph+ fines/bans, but still have questions.

Today I received my SJP.

So I was caught doing 111mph on the M62 in October, got pulled over with blue lights etc, all very embarrassing.
The time was just after midnight, the road was dry, lit and empty.

I have 0 points on my license, and have had a clean license for 15yrs.

The police officer was thoroughly decent about it, but explained he had no discretion and I would be attending court. I had my license on me at the time and he took all my details, entered them into a hand held computer and gave me a printout detailing the offense when we'd finished.

My first question: I've read a lot here about NIPS, but I've never received a NIP in the post. Was the print out the NIP? Or have I somehow missed the NIP in the post? How can I tell?

2) the SJP suggests I don't have to attend court, all the advice I've received suggest it would definitely be best to go in person, as just filling in the form could suggest I have a rather blasรฉ attitude to the matter ( I guess even if I did try pleading guilty by doing it on paper I'd get summoned anyway, as a ban is very likely) - what's your opinion? Is it best just straight away to say I'll plead guilty in person?

3) I do have a clean license, but did get 3 points 15yrs ago when I was still a teenager, when the court considers previous convictions I assume they do not consider 3 points from 15 yrs ago? How far back can they see?

4) similar to the above, I also attended a speed awareness course 5yr+ ago, does the court consider this too or not? Do they have access to this information?

These are obviously important factors because having the clean license should (I think) mean I am treated slightly more leniently than someone with 3 recent points for example.

5) the issue of the road conditions, the SJP states 'weather good, visibility clear, traffic light and road surface clear'. I am assuming all this means is that there were no aggregavating factors in this regard, whilst the court will have no aggrevating factors to consider to harshen the sentence, do they also consider the factors and the time (after midnight) when considering the length of the ban, in such a way as to mean a less lengthy ban?

6) when I get to court, do I get a chance to speak, or preferably, submit a written statement about what happened? And if I do, is such a move a wise one? I don't want to say something which the Magistrate would construe as me trying to explain away what I did, or make it look less bad - but I do feel that I'd like to mention the time and conditions. Maybe I should just stick to apologizing for my stupid and wreckless behavior (which it was) and leave it at that?

7) I've read a few sentencing guideline bits and pieces and keep seeing the word 'OR'. 3-6 point OR a ban. Does this mean if I get a ban I don't get points? This seems strange?

8) through your experience, and given the particulars of my case what do you think is a likely ban length for me?

Thanks in advance ๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ™

Safe driving.
Logician
1. As you were stopped and warned at the time no NIP is required.
2. You cannot attend an SJP hearing. plead guilty on the form and the likelihood is that the single justice will refer your case to a regular court for disqualification to be considered, that hearing you will be asked to attend.
3. 3 points from 15 years ago has no relevance
4. The court will neither know nor care about the course.
5. This means there were no aggravating features, if there were the ban could be longer, their absence does not make it shorter.
6. You need to be very careful that you do not appear to be saying you consider it all right to speed in certain conditions. Better to simply apologise for a moment of stupidity and point out that your clean licence shows that this was out of character.
7. If you get a ban you do not get points, that is correct. You never get both for the same offence, if you commit two offences at the same time you get a ban or points only for the more serious one. In the special circumstance of totting, being given points may then result in a totting disqualification.
8. At a guess, 14 to 28 days. This takes effect immediately so do not drive to court.
Jlc
As Logician has already covered. You had a โ€˜verbalโ€™ NIP instead of the more common postal one for offences caught by camera.

In regards to not getting any points with a ban - your insurer will still want to know and a ban will likely load more that 6 points. Check when the insurer needs advising, usually at renewal. The advantage in not getting points would be in regards to totting if you reach 12. But a ban around 1 month usually impacts more than 6 points...
innocentdevil
back in 2005 when I was young and had no sense and had a fast bmw, i was caught on m62 stretch doing 125 by unmarked police car midnight.

the officer was very good, had discretion and gave me a ticket for 95MPH where I incurred 3 points and ยฃ60 fine. learnt my lesson then. Good luck.
HeathrowAirporter
QUOTE (innocentdevil @ Thu, 21 Dec 2017 - 16:02) *
back in 2005 when I was young and had no sense and had a fast bmw, i was caught on m62 stretch doing 125 by unmarked police car midnight.

the officer was very good, had discretion and gave me a ticket for 95MPH where I incurred 3 points and ยฃ60 fine. learnt my lesson then. Good luck.


Same thing happened to me on the M27 near Southampton 30-35 years ago. I was tailgated by an unmarked car so I tried to accelerate away - not realising it was the rozzers behind me! When they pulled me over at the Eastleigh slip road, they showed me the "Vascar" display which recorded 107 mph (probably the fastest a Ford Cortina 1.6L had ever managed) they said they would report me for 90.6 mph as that was the speed they clocked me at before I started accelerating!

Usually, I find you get treated pretty fairly when you deal with the human side of policing. It's the reliance on cameras and the "processing" that I dislike!

Good Luck to the OP - I hope you can plead a bit of "human" circumstances (potential loss of job, causing suffering for someone you care for etc) so you avoid a ban. If you have Legal Cover on your insurance, you belong to a Trade Union that can provide legal help or if you have AA / RAC membership with legal cover, it would be a good idea to get some advice. They may even represent you in court - it's worth checking out.
soulofuniverse
You don't want to have ban, believe me. I've been banned in 2010 for 6 month under TT99, this will stick with you for about 5 years and you won't find even an insurer wanting to insure you, and those who will will charge you around 2-3k on any vehicle or motorcycle and etc.
I would plead guilty and accept that this is your fault. If the judge will be in a good mood, you might just receive 6 points and a fine around 800-1000 pounds depending on your income smile.gif Because the road been empty and it wasn't at 30mph zone, I really doubt you'll receive a ban, but if the judge is in a bad mood, you can be banned. This system in UK is funny and it all depends on circumstances and how luck you are.
NewJudge
QUOTE (soulofuniverse @ Tue, 26 Dec 2017 - 10:52) *
Because the road been empty and it wasn't at 30mph zone,


Do not mention either of those in court. The road being empty will give the court the impression that you believe it is OK to tank it if you believe the circumstances are suitable.
Paywajc
Hi guys,

Sorry for the slow reply, I've been on holiday. Merry Xmas all btw! ๐Ÿ˜๐ŸŽ„๐Ÿพ

Thanks for all the replies, particularly logician for the comprehensive answer - appreciated.

To clarify, I do myself no harm by trying to plead guilty under the SJP and not attending court? Or do I? It is almost certain I will need to attend court, but is it worth a punt trying under the SJP first?

My main question though:

If I Just fill in the form now, and say I will plead guilty in court, and post immediately - then what is the average time to getting a court date? AND on average how far into the future is that court date set?

The magistrates court hearing the case will be Bradford if any geographical differences apply.

Understand the advice re. Mentioning road conditions etc in any mitigation - I will avoid the temptation for any of this, as I accept that a clear and dry road is not actually an invitation to speed excessively.

Thanks in advance ๐Ÿ™
Logician
QUOTE
To clarify, I do myself no harm by trying to plead guilty under the SJP and not attending court? Or do I? It is almost certain I will need to attend court, but is it worth a punt trying under the SJP first?


You do yourself no harm at all, that is how the SJP system works, as I said you cannot attend the SJP procedure, so you would have to reject that and opt for a full court to do otherwise, and if you are pleading guilty and have no points of significance to raise, the question would be rather why you should choose to do that. You might even just get 6 points from that court but more likely it will be referred to the full court by the single justice, and then you should attend. Try to get this into perspective, this is all a very big deal for you, but for the courts this is a very basic routine matter and no one is going to spend a long time pondering about it.

How long you will have to wait depends entirely on how busy the court is and the dates of traffic courts scheduled. The court dealing with it is surely given on the SPJ notice? Often local papers carry a digest of cases from the local magistrates court, you could get hold of the paper for the area and see when the speeding offences dealt with occurred. Looking in my local for today shows that most of the cases dated back to June, but that is no guide to another area.
Paywajc
UPDATE

Hey guys,

I though I'd post a quick update, if only to serve as a future reference to others ending up at this forum in similar circumstances to myself. I know this one was pretty much 'run of the mill', but knowing the outcome is hopefully of interest regardless.

I was so convinced I'd end up with a disqualification I nearly filled my SJP form in with the 'plead guilty in court' option. I'm glad I didn't.

I did the 'plead guilty by post' option, and to my great surprise came home to a letter from the court yesterday informing me my license had been endorsed with 6 points, and a whopping great fine.

I'd say the SJP is nearly always worth a go, if you'd prefer 6 points that is.

You've got them round your neck for much longer than the possible ban, but I guess that's the point in points, helps you maybe keep a bit more focused on your driving over a long period of time - for me though, the fact I avoided court and the huge inconvenience of a ban is preferential.

As suggested, in this thread and many others, I simply asked that my clean license by taken into account, and stated that I was ashamed of my stupid actions, I did also ask the Justice to please consider endorsing my license instead of referring me to court for a possible ban.

Great forums guys, I've regularly been reading the posts and replies here, and some of you clearly have a lot of expertise and knowledge in this area - it's a great resource for the un-initiated, and for me personally and I'm sure many others too it's been reassuring and helpful to have had somewhere like this to come.

Keep up the good work peeps :-)

All the best!
Ocelot
Thanks for the update, sounds like a result.
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