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So I was going down Walthamstow village through some tight turns and went around a stopped vehicle on wingfield rd to immediately turn right into what felt like a pedestrian-only road (orford rd). I did not have the space to turn around and was a one-way anyway so I crawled through it and went home, few days after which I got this notice. I am guilty of going through it and my defense is that it's not an easy one to see one a narrow street when you turn right on to it. Also I am pretty sure this restriction is new - not that this has any moral or legal standing


Fine is a hefty one so any input is highly appreciated. Thanks in advance - I will read up a bit on this as well but I don't think I have a lot of time to respond
Post the PCN all pages
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 20:21) *
Post the PCN all pages

Hi, just added the page 1. The rest are standard text but will add them as soon as I get to photograph them - I had assumed this would suffice. Thanks
GSV is no good for looking at this one as it's two years out-of-date, and only shows the work in progress, and no restriction signs. It is the signs we need to see, (or lack/indequacy of them). The PCN shows it is a street restricted to certain classes of vehicles and your vehicle isn't one of them.

Any chance you can take some photos and post them here.
Neil B

But even that isn't any good.
The 'no vehicles' signs were used, amusingly, for this pro-cycling scheme and I hear have been changed at least twice since.

I guess OP isn't local as this 'Mini Holland' has been the biggest hot potato locally for well over a year.

May be up to date sign pics in previous cases on forum.

Noting past discount so got to fight anyway.

Deadline for reps, 10th December.
Neil B
Lots of info in post #12 of this Incl TMO

So it's probably flying motorbikes now.
I really don't like the one-way arrows on top, referring only to the excepted buses.
Neil B

Can I just ask if you understand
- your current financial liability for this PCN, in terms of amount due?
- that nothing more would be risked by challenging it?

and we still need that PCN please.
Mad Mick V
The original experimental order was replaced with this one:-

In essence, as much as they describe it as a prescribed route, these orders provide a mini-Holland scheme which is in fact a Pedestrian Zone/Restricted Zone as noted in the replacement order. The planners have misled themselves with the "prescribed route" description and IMO got the signage wrong esp the blue sign with the white arrow.

Should have been a variation of a Diagram 618.3 sign:-

That said I don't think we can make much of that mistake.

I just wonder if the Sect 36 sign v the TMO impasse might be a suitable ground for this one.

Neil B
QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Wed, 29 Nov 2017 - 11:02) *
I just wonder if the Sect 36 sign v the TMO impasse might be a suitable ground for this one.

I defer to you on whether that can be used here.

High losing percentage at adjudication but of the few winners, this approach from Wingfield is very relevant.
- unsighted for signs and possibly absent advance warning.
The misleading one-way arrows are also mentioned.
Neil B
Hi All

I do apologize for not responding while all of you have been spending all this effort on this! Just been a bit busy and was overwhelmed by the response. So anyway, here is the full PCN...

I must admit I dont fully follow the discussion here but I haven't yet read the referenced posts but will do soon

QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 29 Nov 2017 - 00:18) *

Can I just ask if you understand
- your current financial liability for this PCN, in terms of amount due?
- that nothing more would be risked by challenging it?

and we still need that PCN please.

I fully intend to challenge, just building up information for a stronger challenge. I did not intend to wait beyond the discount date but left it too long.

And no, I am not local here, my friend is. I am going on a whistle stop trip tonight then to the airport but will try to get a photo.

taken yesterday
Neil B
Does anyone know the precise meaning/parameters of 'traffic' as described by TSRGD 2016?
'I fully intend to challenge, just building up information for a stronger challenge.'?????????, posted 3 Dec.

PCN dated 9 Nov, therefore deemed served 13th, which is day 1 of period of 28 days after which the authority may disregard any reps.

28-day period ended 10 Dec.

Today is 13th.

OP, you've gone from the opportunity to pay the discount to potentially being liable for a surcharged penalty of £195.

If you don't give this matter the attention it deserves you could ultimately have enforcement officers at your door waving a warrant.

Make reps online or by email NOW. You do not have time for further analysis.

I did not see the sign when I turned from A into *****, neither did I notice any warning traffic signs in A prior to the junction. I am not local to the area although I have visited before when the restriction was not in force ( if true). Please exercise discretion on this occasion.

Let's at least see if they'll re-offer the discount.
Hi hcandersen

I fully realize the lateness of this, I must admit the nature of the last few weeks plus the fact that I was traveling last two weeks meant this got forgotten. Ironically I landed in Stansted and drive past this road in order to take the above photo after which I went home and appealed. It did say that the charge is now the full £195 (which I accept is my own doing) but it did accept the appeal.

I mentioned that the appeal is based on the combination of the changing of restrictions compounded by the narrow approach road and sharp right making the sign changes less likely to be noticed - all of which completely reflect what happened.

I will update this page as and when things progress, thank you all for your inputs so far


Got a rejection notice a couple of days ago, but PC is acting up so had to do redaction and upload on phone, took me a while..

I've made a pdf pack, please have a look -

The reg plate is blurry in the photos where you can see the location but it's clear on the zoomed in one, which of course i have blurred out.

I'm all ears..
Mad Mick V
Well they have re-offered the discount so you need to carefully weigh up your evidence to determine whether you have better than 50:50? 60:40? 80:20? chance of success (you choose).

I did think that, either way is got me a few days time to consider it. I guess it'll depend on what comes up here..

Thanks for your time
Neil B
Have you got the vid for this?
Neil B
Vids normally on 'viewmypcn' for WF I think.

A tough decision.

The scheme is hugely contentious locally, with very polarised camps; but that has no bearing.

You have an adjudication which supports your particular circumstances. There are a lot of others, from various approaches,
I've been looking at this entry as I've just been caught here. Looking through TSRGD 2016 chapter 3 'zone entry and exit signs' [p92] I found a small section:

Where the pedestrian zone comprises a
one-way road, it should be signed in accordance with
paras 4.35 to 4.43. Signs to diagram 618.2, 618.3 or
618.3A should be provided only at the entry to the
zone in the direction of travel; they should not be
used with or in place of the “no entry” signs to
diagram 616 at the other end of the one-way road.

At the other end to the entry of the one way section is a 'no entry' sign [616]. Does this mean the signs have been wrongly applied?
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