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FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
eddie1234567
With it being illegal to clamp vehicles in Scotland and also no tresspass, if you parked in another company carpark would they be entitled to have your vehicle towed.

Or would they be able to report it for obstruction.

Also I notice a lot of cars go by my office window with those signs that have been glued onto windows that are a bitch to remove. Is that vandalism or some such
soft_lad
I believe that if they had a (clearly visible) notice in the carpark stating that an unauthorised car could be towed, then your car is fair game (because of the implied contract created). If they they don't, then you should be OK - This is the English version however, I have no idea if Scotland differs. But, if they are only sticking warning noices to peoples windows (vandalism aside) then i suspect they have no legal backing to tow it.
jeffreyarcher
QUOTE (eddie1234567)
Or would they be able to report it for obstruction.

The RTAs apply to 'roads to which the public have access', so I doubt it.
Whatever the legal position, I doubt the police would be interested. I am aware of a couple of cases (not obstruction) which clearly fell within the definition. The police weren't interested.
The bottom line is, if they want to, they will do something. And parking on someone's private ground is not something that they want to get involved with.

QUOTE (1234567)
Also I notice a lot of cars go by my office window with those signs that have been glued onto windows that are a bitch to remove. Is that vandalism or some such

I've seen a increase in this in the last year or so. Criminal damage, I'd say. But, the problem may be the Scots Law requirement for corroboration. Even if the notice says, "Do Not Park in Acme Manaufacturing's car park again," that may only be one element, so not be enough.
A civil claim (small claim in the Sherrif Court) for the damage rectification's probably the way to go.
eddie1234567
QUOTE (jeffreyarcher @ Thu, 1 Jun 2006 - 02:02) *
QUOTE (eddie1234567)
Or would they be able to report it for obstruction.

The RTAs apply to 'roads to which the public have access', so I doubt it.
Whatever the legal position, I doubt the police would be interested. I am aware of a couple of cases (not obstruction) which clearly fell within the definition. The police weren't interested.
The bottom line is, if they want to, they will do something. And parking on someone's private ground is not something that they want to get involved with.

QUOTE (1234567)
Also I notice a lot of cars go by my office window with those signs that have been glued onto windows that are a bitch to remove. Is that vandalism or some such

I've seen a increase in this in the last year or so. Criminal damage, I'd say. But, the problem may be the Scots Law requirement for corroboration. Even if the notice says, "Do Not Park in Acme Manaufacturing's car park again," that may only be one element, so not be enough.
A civil claim (small claim in the Sherrif Court) for the damage rectification's probably the way to go.

Cheers SL and JA for your replies,

SL: in Scotland clamping is illegal (I believe) because there has to be explicit concent to touch the vehicle, so my thinking is they would need the same for Towing. Also with no Tresspass up here it makes it harder (thats where Obstruction was thought off, they can't touch the vehicle but could ask the police to take care of someones right of access being blocked????????)

JA: Thats what I thought as well but unless the police go to the companie and they "YES we did it", then it's nothing but a sticker that magically appeared.
jeffreyarcher
QUOTE (1234567)
SL: in Scotland clamping is illegal (I believe) because there has to be explicit concent to touch the vehicle,

I don't think so. IIRC (although it was long before I took an interest in such matters), it is either extortion or theft by deprivation of use. ISTR, the test cases alleged both; which was successful, I don't know.
QUOTE (1234567)
so my thinking is they would need the same for Towing.

Towing to another location would seem to fall into both of the above categories.

QUOTE (1234567)
Also with no Tresspass up here it makes it harder (thats where Obstruction was thought off, they can't touch the vehicle but could ask the police to take care of someones right of access being blocked????????)

Possibly if there actually was obstruction, but not just because they had parked somewhere where the owner didn't want them to park.
patdavies
QUOTE (eddie1234567 @ Wed, 31 May 2006 - 13:40) *
Also I notice a lot of cars go by my office window with those signs that have been glued onto windows that are a bitch to remove. Is that vandalism or some such


If the signs are on the front windows or the windscreen and are, as you say a bitch to remove, then whoever applied them has made the vehicle unroadworthy and, IMO, would be liable to civil recourse for damages relating to the removal of the notice and consequential damages like taxi fares etc.

I know that you are referring to Scottish law, but I seem to remember Selfridges in London falling foul of this on their private road behind the store in Oxford Street.
eddie1234567
QUOTE (jeffreyarcher @ Thu, 1 Jun 2006 - 15:20) *
QUOTE (1234567)
SL: in Scotland clamping is illegal (I believe) because there has to be explicit concent to touch the vehicle,

I don't think so. IIRC (although it was long before I took an interest in such matters), it is either extortion or theft by deprivation of use. ISTR, the test cases alleged both; which was successful, I don't know.


Ah Now I remember those words, but wasn't there also something mentioned in it that went around whether the contract could be enforced as there couldn't be Implied consent it had to be explicit (hoping really, as that is what I picked up from it and told my friends and family. if wrong, I got to go look like a plonker (again)) ohmy.gif
jeffreyarcher
QUOTE (eddie1234567 @ Sat, 3 Jun 2006 - 10:09) *
but wasn't there also something mentioned in it that went around whether the contract could be enforced as there couldn't be Implied consent it had to be explicit (hoping really, as that is what I picked up from it and told my friends and family.

I had a Google, and these two articles (the RAC Foundation and the Swindon Advertiser) mention the extortion and theft, but nothing about explicit consent. Although, explicit consent may have been part of the rationale, I suppose.

Edited to add: Two better articles, though still somewhat scant on detail;
R. Jerrard and FFW.
Jerrard's artcicle is contradictory re. the extortion. The first mention says it's not extortion; the Lord Hope quoute says that it is.
Still no mention of explicit consent though.
DW190
Is the term you are looking for not "Express Consent"?
eddie1234567
One thing I havn't noticed in Edinburgh or Aberdeen are the private ticketing firms like they have in England, apart from at supermarkets where they give you 2 hours or else ticket you.

Is there anything within scots law that is stopping these companies from Proliferating
MartinHP71
QUOTE (eddie1234567 @ Mon, 21 Aug 2006 - 11:48) *
Is there anything within scots law that is stopping these companies from Proliferating


Yes probably common sense biggrin.gif
Teufel
law and common sense are seperate fields of inquiry !

i am studying for my master in law - maybe next
ill do a phd in common sense !
greatscot
QUOTE
Also I notice a lot of cars go by my office window with those signs that have been glued onto windows that are a bitch to remove. Is that vandalism or some such

If the signs are on the front windows or the windscreen and are, as you say a bitch to remove, then whoever applied them has made the vehicle unroadworthy and, IMO, would be liable to civil recourse for damages relating to the removal of the notice and consequential damages like taxi fares etc.




I remember being at Aberdeen Uni(one place that glues those signs on) and a student kicking up a fuss about it being on the drivers side window. The parking attendant who fixed it on (illegally blocking the line of sight of the driver) was made to clean it off himself. I don't think they are allowed to block the line of sight of the driver.
DW190
Parking Attendants here in Bolton are instructed to place the PCN's over the road fund licence.

Could this be seen as incitment?

Failure to "Display" a valid RFL is an offence.
patdavies
QUOTE (greatscot @ Mon, 21 Aug 2006 - 23:22) *
QUOTE
Also I notice a lot of cars go by my office window with those signs that have been glued onto windows that are a bitch to remove. Is that vandalism or some such

If the signs are on the front windows or the windscreen and are, as you say a bitch to remove, then whoever applied them has made the vehicle unroadworthy and, IMO, would be liable to civil recourse for damages relating to the removal of the notice and consequential damages like taxi fares etc.




I remember being at Aberdeen Uni(one place that glues those signs on) and a student kicking up a fuss about it being on the drivers side window. The parking attendant who fixed it on (illegally blocking the line of sight of the driver) was made to clean it off himself. I don't think they are allowed to block the line of sight of the driver.


By blocking the drivers line of sight, they are making the vehicle unroadworthy in law
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