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Fubar
I was there, at the specified time, not denying that. However, being aware of the reputation of the area I strictly adhere to the 30mph limits.

35 mph in a 30 is a bit close to the bone, I spoke to a friend of mine ( genuine police inspector ) who said it would be worthwhile asking for some evidence, both for the pictures and calibration data of the offence. I'm not interested in fighting this in the courts, Is it worth asking for the evidence, saying I will admit guilt if they can send me good photographic and calibration evidence. From what I remember there was plenty of traffic at the time. they might have dropped a clanger?
Is it worth asking for the piccies, also nowhere have i seen about anyone asking for retrospective calibration data, all I need is 1mph down to be within the acpo recommendations.
I've a clean licence and want it that way! sad.gif

I would appreciate your advice!

ate of the offence: - May 2006
Date of the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Thorpe Road, Howden
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - NK
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Didn't even see what got me! according to sites, it must have been a disguised mobile.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Were you driving? - [b]Ye
andy_foster
The ACPO guidelines are merely that - guidelines.
The 10%+2 is intended to allow for slight errors - so if you can prove that you were between the limit and the guideline, you are still speeding.

The scammers probably get more requests for calibration certificates in response to the NIP (ebay ebooks...) than thy do PACE statements. They are unlikely to play ball.
It's probably worth a try, but if you're not prepared to at least pretnd to put up a fight, they won't be intimidated.
Fubar
Thanks for the quick reply, There's no way I can try to say somebody else was driving, I'm just not convinced that I was speeding. Do you think they would send me the evidence? Just on the off chance there is a problem I could exploit eg the fact there was a lot of other traffic?

I appreciate your advice, even though I may well be on a hiding to nothing.

Cheers.
firefly
Have you read this?
Fubar
OOhyaah, I need to look into the vague locus thing perchance?

Shame that Howden is about 2 hrs from my home, no chance of revisiting the scene of the supposed despicable crime ( which I'm not convinced i comitted).

on the form it does say "Thorpe road, Howden", this seems pretty specific to me, at what point does it become properly vague?

Apologies if i'm asking dumb questions, this is all new to me. I was always one of the " it'll never happen to me, I'm a good boy" brigade......
nemo
QUOTE (Fubar @ Sun, 28 May 2006 - 19:53) *
on the form it does say "Thorpe road, Howden", this seems pretty specific to me, at what point does it become properly vague?

QUOTE ("Young vs Day")
Summary: The Divisional Court refused to set aside a decision by the justices that a notice of intended prosecution under the Road Traffic Act 1930 s. 21 was insufficiently particular where it stated the place of the offence of dangerous driving as "the Hothfield to Bethersden Road," which was a minor road four miles long. (Pope v. Clarke [1953] 1 W.L.R. 1060 followed).
Fubar
I have spent several hours pouring over the wealth of information on this site...........

If I go down the pace route, Ie send in the PACE form, also stating that with the imprecise location supplied, I do not believe that any offence can be admitted to, especially as no photographic or video evidence will be supplied.

What is the probobility the cps will go down the magistrate route, not sure if the fact it was 35 in a 30 will make any difference?

I am self employed, and worried about this going to court.

Thanks one and all
DW190
35 in 30 is a speed that would warrant a speed awareness course in most areas.

Anybody any idea if the partnership for this area issue speed awareness courses from the CTO or another address.
Fubar
After much consideration, I have decided to go down the pace route, I don't reckon that they will give me more than 3 points for 35 in a 30, I will have to take a chance on the money.

What is the general concesus on a sucessful outcome for me, when going down the pace route, Ie staple it to the s172, Is there any chance of a speed awareness course? (which would be funny, i was trying to stick to 30mph)

At what stage do I lose the offer to 3 points and sixty quid?,

Can anyone give me information on the behaviour patterns of Humberside in particular? Forwarned is forarmed.

I realise that this is peanuts compared to other cases on the board, it is important to me though.

Thanks for any help.
Fubar
Ok, it is the run up to the PACE letter send off,
firstly, do I send it to the Central Ticket Coordinator at the central ticket office, or the Chief Constable?
If the Chief Constable, is it advisable to find the persons real name?

With the pace letter, and the attached NIP form (unsigned!) is it worth sending a letter explaining that I am not convinced that I was speeding, as I am aware of the risks, etc and as a technically qualified science bod, that seeing the evidence is very important to me. would showing a human side be worth a go?
Would just sending the PACE notice and NIP make me look like I had spotted a website and thought I might get away with it?

Many thanks for the assistance. and for standing up for the "small people"
crystal
Hi,

I would avoid any unnecessary comunication with them it offers to many pitfalls, in general they not interested in what happened just if you are going to pay up.

IF you get a summons then you can get the evidence to check, until then you are unlikly to get anaything beyond a photo to help identify the driver if needed.
I belive the CC is the recommend but I send mine to the tcicket office. You could always copy it to both.
Regards
Crystal
Fubar
Thanks Crystal,

I will just a pace&nip to the ticket co-ordinator.

has anyone got any experience of the humbersides attitude to pace?

also, if there was a summonse, would I have to go all the way to beverly? approx 60 miles?

Regards.
crystal
Hi,

Yes you have to go the court of there choice which will be in the area of the offence.

Regards
Crystal
Fubar
righthiho,
Fantasitic letter from humberside, unfortunately i don't have a scanner, but I will copy it:

I thank you for you for your letter confirming you were the driver of vehicle *** *** at the time of the alleged offence.

the notice of intended prosecution is sent to the registered keeper, under section 172, Road Traffic Act 1988, to identify the driver of the vehicle at the time of the alledged offence. However, if the defendant wishes to challenge the allegation they may elect a court hearing and allow the Magistrates' court to decide the matter.

The central ticket office is not a mediator between the police and the courts and cannot enter into turther discussions about legislative and/or technical issues that you may have in relation to the validity of the notice.

To give you the oportunity to avoid the case proceeding to court I will send you a further Notice of Intended Prosecution. Please now complete and sign the notice as directed. Of you wish to request a court hearing, you may write your request in Part 6 of the form.

If you fail to complete, sign and return the notice in accordance with the instructions provided, within the statuory 28 day period, the matter will be referred to the Magistrates' Court and you can expect to recieve a summons in due course.

Yours faithfully etc.

Can I read this as:

Swine, you've for avoiding the thousand quid fine and s172 by admitting you were the driver,

We however, would still like you to admit an offence and give us 60 quid and 3 points,

We want to avoid anything involving the police and the law,

If you want to go to court will you please admit the offence first,

If you don't admit the offence we would like it to go to the courts..............................



All you guys and gals at pepipoo have given me a new form of entertainment.
Thanks, this has now become enjoyable.

The worst that can happen is extra costs!
firefly
QUOTE (Fubar @ Thu, 29 Jun 2006 - 00:50) *
The worst that can happen is extra costs!
cool.gif

Bang on. I wish everyone shared your 'mindless optimism'. tongue.gif
Fubar
have I missed something?

I am under the illusion that realistically the worst I can get will be 3 points, 60 quid fine and the court costs, ie its worth playing the game because if I self-incriminate i will get 3 points and 60 quid anyway.
Fubar
Had a couple of bluff and bluster letters, obviously to get me to fill the NIP in, this however came without a NIP letter. Unfortunately no scanner available so will copy the hard way way:

Dear Sir or Madam,

NOTICE OF INTENDED PROSECUTION **************
DATE OF ALLEGED OFFENCE 20/05/2006

A Notice of Intended Prosecution together with a notice under section 172 of the
Road Traffic Act 1988, requiring you to provide information as to the identity of
motor vehicle ******* when it exceeded the speed limit on THORPE ROAD, HOWDEN
at **:** on the above date was sent to you.

A further reminder letter was then sent to you.

To date, no response has been recieved from you and so I write to advise you that
summary proceedings will now commence against you and you may expect to receive
a summons for failing to supply along with any other offences revealed.

Yours Faithfully


Mrs C Maher
Office Coordinator.


So, as I have not recieved any COPF.


A: Is this just a regular B&B scary letter, or are they stepping past the COPF and taking me straight to court?

B: They obviously have recieved a reply, they have said that before, but now can I expect an S172 charge?

C: Do I just ignore it? (I assume yes, just want to make sure)

Would be grateful for any support on this, cheers guys.
Zapata
QUOTE (Fubar @ Fri, 1 Sep 2006 - 17:39) *
Had a couple of bluff and bluster letters, obviously to get me to fill the NIP in, this however came without a NIP letter. Unfortunately no scanner available so will copy the hard way way:

Dear Sir or Madam,

NOTICE OF INTENDED PROSECUTION **************
DATE OF ALLEGED OFFENCE 20/05/2006

A Notice of Intended Prosecution together with a notice under section 172 of the
Road Traffic Act 1988, requiring you to provide information as to the identity of
motor vehicle ******* when it exceeded the speed limit on THORPE ROAD, HOWDEN
at **:** on the above date was sent to you.

A further reminder letter was then sent to you.

To date, no response has been recieved from you and so I write to advise you that
summary proceedings will now commence against you and you may expect to receive
a summons for failing to supply along with any other offences revealed.

Yours Faithfully


Mrs C Maher
Office Coordinator.


So, as I have not recieved any COPF.


A: Is this just a regular B&B scary letter, or are they stepping past the COPF and taking me straight to court?

B: They obviously have recieved a reply, they have said that before, but now can I expect an S172 charge?

C: Do I just ignore it? (I assume yes, just want to make sure)

Would be grateful for any support on this, cheers guys.


Is your letter accurate as to what was said - for example - "requiring you to provide information as to the identity of motor vehicle xxxxx" Have you or they missed out "the driver". If it is the identity of the vehicle I call mine Fred but I don't think they want to know that !!

Rgds
Zapata
Fubar
well spotted, the letter said, "identity of the driver of motor vehicle *****"

thanks!
crystal
Hi,

I would guess they have decided to skip the COFP and go to court. From the letter you may be summons for S172, speeding or both, you will have to wait a see what the postman brings.

I advise keeping fingers crossed on the 27th and offering gifts to any gods you feel may help

Regards
Crystal
Fubar
question:
am coming up to the 6 months (23 may "offence")

Is it possible for me to ring the courts on 24 Nov to find out if papers have been laid?

1, am dying to find out, the summonse may not yet arrive for weeks!
2, If there was to be any "backdating" ohmy.gif I may show up....


I have spent hours and hours reading these boards, i will be donating (or joining BBAG depending on next few weeks)

Thanks to one and all for a new hobby!
The Rookie
The original offence will time out on 23rd November, if you know the court they use you could contact them on the 24th to see if anything is on its way, but its probably better to leave it until the end of the month as the papers could arrive but not be on the system.....

They have about another 5-6 weeks to summons you for S172 anyway

Simon
Fubar
Oh yes the s172,
strangely enough I am not too worried about that. On one of the letters they thank me for supplying the drivers name and details. the last letter informed me they were going to summonse me for an s172 offence and " any other offences that come to light". If they send me a letter thanking me for supplying the details, they can hardly do me for non-supplying can they??

can they??

The Beverly court will be the one in question. It may be worth ringing them. If only because I am impatient,....
flashman
QUOTE (Fubar @ Sat, 18 Nov 2006 - 10:51) *
On one of the letters they thank me for supplying the drivers name and details. the last letter informed me they were going to summonse me for an s172 offence

How I envy you having so much fun in store!
Fubar
6 months plus 2 weeks has arrived.......
I have refrained from ring the Beverly courts after advice from the forum, but i was sorely tempted.

I hope the speeding charge has gone now,
I am almost hoping for an S172 charge ( being an arguementative b4strd) , after recieving a letter saying they would summonse me under S172 and having received a letter thanking me for identifying myself as the driver....

how long do i have to wait before I can be absolutely certain they will not follow up on the speeding charge??????


A huge thank you to all on this forum!!!! even if I do get done it has been a fine learning curve.


and yes, I have beeen drinking. blink.gif
crystal
Hi

I reckon you have another couple weeks yet before you can say your clear

Regards
Crystal
Fubar
AAAAaagh, the suspense is killing me...

Thanks crystal.
Fubar
I couldn't wait any longer.......

Rang Beverley magistrates court this afternoon, spoke to a lass who seemed pretty bright and clued up.
I gave her my full name, she said there was no mention of me on their system, I then asked if the info was up to date, she said it was. there have been no files submitted against me.

In theory I could still get done for S172, but highly unlikely, it wouldn't hold up in court.

rolleyes.gif biggrin.gif cool.gif smile.gif wink.gif rolleyes.gif laugh.gif

It still may be too early to be absolutely %100 sure, but this is £60 I think I will be splitting between the pub and pepipoo.

Much thanks to all those who have proffered advice and helped, it has been an education.

Merry xmas too all. wub.gif
^Qwerty^
Wouldn't this be heard at Goole?
Fubar
From what I have been told, it should have been Beverley, The cental ticket office is certainly Beverley. If not, I may yet be too early, however the lass I spoke to in the office seemed pretty sure that her court would have handled it. I may now ring Goole to check.
Cheers for that. (I think glare.gif )
Best of luck for 2007 one and all.
Oakesy
I am quite interested in this one as I am currently dealing with an offence on the same road in september. I have managed to stall for this long, and should be able to drag it out for at least 5 months, then send pace with very little time for them to do anything about it. At the moment I am using the excuse that cheshire still have my licence for an unrelated offence and I will have to apply for a new one. (cheshire sent it back but only 2nd class)

What is your experience with them? did they always reply quickly or not?
Fubar
the only reply was to the pace that I sent at incident plus 25 days. I have avoided corresponding with them after advice from the forum. I don't know the true reasons why they haven't summonsed me (yet?) and can only speculate. There were several heavy duty B&B letters, all dutifully filed away including my get out of S172 card. where they had thanked me for identfying the driver. Hence I almost hoped for a S172... I am an argumentative git at times and would enjoy my day at court.....

best of luck, but keep your head down if possible
stirling ross
QUOTE (Oakesy @ Thu, 28 Dec 2006 - 11:29) *
I am quite interested in this one as I am currently dealing with an offence on the same road in september. I have managed to stall for this long, and should be able to drag it out for at least 5 months, then send pace with very little time for them to do anything about it. At the moment I am using the excuse that cheshire still have my licence for an unrelated offence and I will have to apply for a new one. (cheshire sent it back but only 2nd class)

What is your experience with them? did they always reply quickly or not?


Unfortunatley the Humberside police/CPS/Beverley CTO wasted many hours of my time earlier on this year, with a 'non disclosure of driver summons (S172)'. I wont bore you with detail but; hours of research, many letters back and forth, two pre-trial reviews (not so inconvenient as I live 10 minutes away) saw the magistrates dismissing the case when the witness I requested attend (the CTO adminstrator), did not attend. The look on the face of CPS prosecutor was a picture........she was not a happy bunny:P

On a more serious note, I think a lot more people are willing to take on the system now, especially as law abiding citizens are realising that they are being scammed. If you are not guilty, and have reasonable grounds for a defence, have the time spare.....fight them. My advice is to look very closely at the paperwork as the CTO staff in Beverley are not infaliable. It is most probable, that if a hearing goes ahead, that it will be heard in Beverley.
Fubar
stirling, I hope you claimed expenses!
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