Hello

First of all I admit that I never changed my address on my logbook, completely my fault, I'm foreign, I didn't realise how serious of an issue this is, I thought changing it on my licence would be enough.

I received 2x letters from newlyn saying I owe them £278 each for PCN's dated from May & June 2016 (both driving in a bus lane when I first moved into my new house, again completely my fault), this is the first I have ever heard of these PCN's, obviously because the originals were sent to my old address. I have been in contact with the council (Bromley) who said I have to fill out a PE2 & PE3 and send to TEC, I haven't done that yet though.

My question is, should I bother with the statutory declarations at all or do I risk getting a bigger fine for not changing my address? Should I just pay newlyn and chalk it up as a lesson hard learnt?

I find it frustrating that newlyn can easily find out my correct address but the council and the DVLA can't, even though they both have it on record (Council Tax & Drivers Licence).

First thing to do is get your V5 up to date ASAP! Why did you think that updating your Licence would update the V5? DVLA may be many things, but having clairvoyant powers isn't one of them - how do they know that you haven't sold your car at the same time you moved?
Then get the relevant forms and send them to TEC. In the meantime, hide your car - it's an easy target for bailiffs.

Need dates, dates, dates.

of all events.

OK. I've just sent away my updated logbook. How long will this take to update? Surely when the TEC ask the DVLA for the address the DVLA will say the address has only changed very recently?

Dates taken from newlyn letters:
PCN #1 - Contravention 27/5/16, Warrant of Control 30/11/16, Newlyn Notice of Enforcement 26/9/17 (I was on holiday 6/9/17 - 14/10/17 which is why I am only looking into these now)
PCN #2 - Contravention 21/6/16, Warrant of Control 30/11/16, Newlyn Notice of Enforcement 26/9/17.

The back of the letters say I had to have paid by 10/10/17, they have not come around yet, my car was parked at home the whole time I've been on holiday. I will see if there is somewhere else that I can park it to keep it safe for now.

You said you moved.

Dates.
From -- (area)
To --

Sorry, yeah I moved from Croydon to Bromley on 20/5/16.

You need to also phone TEC 0300123 1059 - be patient, they will answer.
Ask if the warrants have been re-issued to your new address and when.

Ask for PE2/3 forms while you talk to them.

Don't try to complete the forms without our help.


That is good - do you see why?

--
You also need to ask the Council the dates the PCNs issued.

So nearly 18 months ago and your V5 still hasn't been updated. You're one of many seen on this forum that thinks all that is needed on a house move is to change one's driving licence. Now you're well out of time for the normal PCN processes, so must submit what is called an Out-of-Time Statutory Declaration/Witness Statement, (which one depends on what the PCNs were for). This will be opposed by the council and TEC will then reject it. It can then be reviewed by a Judge for £100 and who may or may not agree with TEC. You can also attend the judge "in chambers" (in his office), but this costs £255. These sums are difficult to get back if you succeed, although it has been done, and if you fail, no. What the decision would be in a case like yours one cannot say, but you are in a mess of your own making here, sorry to have to say it. One question is, if you haven't updated your V5, how did you pay your next VED renewal, as the reminder would go to your old address too.

What difference would updating the V5 have made?

The first one happened a week after I moved so even if I had updated my V5C I wouldn't have received it because it takes longer than that for the DVLA to update details? Is that what you're thinking? The second one was a full month afterwards though.

I'm sure the warrants were never sent to my new address, I was sent the PE2 and PE3 forms by the council yesterday. I can actually still log in to the council website and see the PCN details, it even seems to let me pay them minus the $75 fee that newlyn have added so down to £203 each. Also the council have said they will hold action for 14 days from yesterday to allow me to fill in the forms so does that mean I can stop worrying about my car being clamped/taken by bailiffs?

I have a direct debit set up for my tax so I don't have to worry about it.

Exactly.
and DVLA take 4-6 weeks to update and it wouldn't have been unreasonable to update DVLA a few weeks after moving.

But you don't have the PCN dates! Get them.



I didn't ask that.
Why have you not phoned TEC ?


Try if you want but very risky.
I would not do that without written agreement from the Council confirming it would close the matters.
Even then bailiff might still pursue and add further fee.

OK, I have phoned the TEC and they said that the warrants were never sent to my new address, they have emailed me the PE2 & PE3 forms. They said they will stop the bailiff action as soon as the forms are sent in to them which I hope to do tomorrow morning after getting it witnessed at the court. I will take your advice on how exactly to fill out the forms too, first of all, can I fill it in with microsoft word or does it need to be hand-written?

The council said about the PCN issue date "The actual notices would have been sent a few days later, but the contravention date is the date of issue of the notice."

I think it expands as you type into the Word version.


Nonsense. It can't be both.
It's relevant to whether you would have received them.

The council have gone for the day so hopefully hear back from them tomorrow about issue date. Since I have the written statement from them that "the contravention date is the date of issue of the notice" then should I just use the date of contravention for the PCN issue date? Either way it's just after I moved house.

How do you recommend I should I word the PE2/PE3 forms?

Thank you for all this help, hopefully it all isn't for nothing.

Just refer to contravention date and that PCN would have followed shortly after.

PE2 is very specific. You are asking permission to file PE2 Stat Dec 'outside of the normally permitted time'
AND explaining why you could not do so earlier. (because you did not receive any docs, which would have allowed
you to file SD IN time.)

You should highlight the fact that PCNs coincided so closely with your move so could not possibly be received.

The Council may contest - normally simply saying they sent all the docs so tough luck.

I have a suggestion to combat that and make them stop to think -

but later, I don't have time right now.

You are aiming now for a TEC processing deadline of 4pm tomorrow.

Draft something of your own and we'll comment.

OK, let me give it a try: parts in square brackets [] are for the second PCN.

I never received the original PCN, dated 27/5/16 [21/6/16] or any further letters about the original offence until 26/9/17 when I received a notice of enforcement letter from newlyn. I believe the PCN was sent to my old address, XXX street name, croydon CRXXXX, and considering I only moved to my new address, XXX street name, bromley BRXXXX on 20/5/16 there was only a period of 1 [4] week[s] to have my logbook updated which does not allow enough time for the DVLA.

These are very difficult and I have little time.
Take out red, insert blue (suggestion)
Then read through to see what you think.


There are two ways these can be rejected.
1/. You say something stupid or untrue, or
2/. The Council object when they get a copy (very often)

So, you might notice that I have written the second part aimed directly at the Council, politely and indirectly
asking them not to object.
Might work, might not.

Make sense?

OK, it all makes sense and is my best bet for sure, I will send it to TEC tomorrow.

Again, thank you so much for your help, I'll let you know how it all turns out.

Can you retype so we can read it properly.

Where is this bit going - what form?

What evidences will you attach for your address change?

OK, here goes, this part will go in the reason block on the PE2 form. Does the PE3 require the same full description or will a shortened one do?

I did not receive the original PCN for a contravention on 27/5/16 [21/6/16] or any further statutory notices about the original offence.
I only became aware of the matter on 26/9/17 when I received a notice of enforcement letter from newlyn. The PCN must have been sent to my old address as it will have been issued very shortly after I left that address, XXX street name, croydon CRXXXX, (see attached evidence). I moved to my new address, XXX street name, bromley BRXXXX on the 20/5/16 (see evidence attached)

I am confident that the London Borough of Bromley, in which I now live, will recognise that there has been an unfortunate coincidence of timing, causing
PCNs issued, close to my change of address, to not reach me. DVLA would not have been likely to update my address details before the Authority requested them.
I am further confident that they will be aware of Government Guidance on how to proceed in such situations.
If I may, I quote from 'Operational Guidance to Local Authorities'

10.68 However, if the name and address on the warrant is incorrect, this would suggest that the order for recovery also gave the incorrect name and address. If so, the order must be re-served before the authority can ask for permission to prepare a warrant. However, if the debtor has moved since the issue of the warrant the bailiff should return the warrant to the local authority for them to apply for a reissue.
10.69 Authorities should instruct their bailiffs to liaise with them before taking this action. If the name or address on the county court order Warrant was incorrect the name or address on the Notice to Owner and the Charge Certificate may also have been incorrect, and neither have been served on the motorist. If the NtO and/or the Charge Certificate were never served the Warrant of Execution should not be served. An NtO (or Charge Certificate) should be served to the name or the address established by the bailiff

My evidence will be my Tenancy Deposit Certificate email from DPS which has the start date of tenancy on it at my new address and in my name, is this good enough?

Fair enough.
How about something re Bromley Council Tax starting? Thus emphasising you are a Bromley citizen.

Anything for leaving old address?

Good luck; fingers crossed.

I was able to get my opening council tax letter which has the tenancy start date on it too which I will also attach. Unfortunately I have no proof of leaving my old house since I wasn't the main tenant.

Should I have the same reason filled out on both the PE2 & PE3? Or can the PE3 just say "I didn't receive the PCN because I moved address so close to the contravention date so it would have been sent to my old address"

Just as you say.
Full detail only on PE2.

Do not sign the forms until told to during swearing.

e mail in with attachments tec@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk

'Unfortunately I have no proof of leaving my old house since I wasn't the main tenant.'

If answering might incriminate you, then don't answer.

UPDATE!!!!!

I finally received a response from the TEC and they have stated the order for recovery is to be revoked and the notice to owner/enforcement notice to be cancelled.

I am beyond stoked right now, I didn't have my hopes up at all.

Thank you so much Neil B!

If I might suggest.
If you're able, the site could always do with a small donation for upkeep.

There's a donate button in this link. I'm sure it will be appreciated.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showuser=2

Done! With the amount you've saved me on fines it's the least I can do.

Thank you again.

We all much appreciate that Sir.

Don't forget to come back with the new PCNs !