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Blackcat73
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2017
Date of the NIP: - 21 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 23 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A64 Eastbound Heslington York
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 6
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons -

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The first NIP to the Registered Keeper must arrive within 14 days unless there is a valid reason why that was not possible, for example a recent change of details.

    This link will take you to the advice provided by the RAC's legal team.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sun, 10 Sep 2017 11:01:46 +0000
peterguk
Alleged offence?

How long have you owned the vehicle?
Logician
QUOTE
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons -


A description of the alleged offence would be a good start!

Have you recently changed address or the vehicle? Look at the V5C and find the date next to the Doc Ref No on page 2, and let us know that and the date of the alleged offence. Do not yet follow the NIP Wizard advice.
The Rookie
Not a leased, company car or financed where the finance company stay as registered keeper?

Checking the V5c reg document to make sure the address is correct is a good idea.
Blackcat73
I would appreciate any advice on the following:

I received a NIP on 9/9/2017 dated 7/9/2017 for an offence of travelling at 80 mph on a 70 mph dual carriageway. The offence date was 17/08/2017. Thus the NIP was received 23 days after the offence. I wrote to the Police using the letter that is advised on another post. I received a response to say that an original NIP was sent on 22/08/17, five days after the original offence. There is no reason why this would have not been received by me.

The NIP I received on 7/09/17 does not refer to the previous NIP, nor does it state anywhere that it is a reminder. I know for a fact that the original was not received as I had been on holiday for two weeks and only came back on 8/9/17. Nobody was in the house whilst I was away and the first thing I did was pick up the post and open it.

For me the dates don't add up.

- The second NIP was sent 15 days after the alleged original - why was this the case. It was not a reminder and did not refer to the original
- the second NIP stated I had 28 days to respond. This would have taken me well over the 28 day deadline of the first NIP
- I sent the letter, including the signed NIP, after the 28 day deadline for the first NIP but never received a letter saying I had failed to provide information for the first one

I am going to write to ask for a copy of the first NIP and want to contest this in court. However, I get the feeling, from reading other posts on this forum, that it would be likely that it would fail.

Any advice would be appreciated




peterguk
QUOTE (Blackcat73 @ Sun, 1 Oct 2017 - 18:06) *
I received a NIP


Same NIP as this thread?:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=115688&hl=
Blackcat73
In answer to the questions above. This is my car, I paid cash there no finance, I have had it for 12 months and the VC5 has my address on.
peterguk
The police are unlikely to start sending you copies of documents, although they might if you're lucky.

Ultimately you can either take the matter to court and put the police to proof, or accept any SAC/CoFP you might be offered and avoid court. Failure in court will prove an expensive day out.
The Rookie
There is no legal requirement to send a reminder nor is there a standard some state it's a reminder, some just send a copy of the NIP and some a new dated one.

It's a dead cert the Police will be able to prove to the courts satisfaction that a NIP was sent in time and the interpretation act deems it served unless the contrary is proven.
Blackcat73
Thanks for your response. It seems like they have you over a barrel. How can you appeal that a NIP was received outside of the 14 days when they can just come back and say an earlier one was sent. The likelihood is nobody will elect for a court hearing. I will write and ask for a copy just to see what comes back
southpaw82
You can "appeal" (in fact elect to be tried by a court) that the NIP didn't arrive within 14 days. The police have reasonably good systems in place these days to show when an NIP was sent. If they can prove that it was properly addressed and posted then the law presumes that it was delivered two business days later. If this presumption operates such that the presumed date of service is within 14 days of the offence date then that's all they need to do. If, in fact, it did not arrive, or arrived late, that is for you to prove, on the balance of probabilities.
BaggieBoy
There no chance this NIP is a reminder, as only 23 days had elapsed when it was issued. For a reminder the force would have waited at least the full 28 days for a response + 2 days to allow for service. I'm pretty sure the first NIP went somewhere else first.
The Rookie
Indeed, first step has to be to physically check the V5c, confirming the address is 100% correct.
Blackcat73
The V5c is correct. In fact the response from the Police states that "...... a Notice of Intended Prosecution was initially sent in compliance to the registered keepers address (my address written out in full)" so they did have have correct address, although the house number was omitted.

What I can't understand is why they sent another NIP 15 days later that made no reference to the first NIP and which did not state it was a reminder and looked like it was a first NIP.

My opinion is that they did not sent the first one but I can't prove that. If I do contest in court whose not to say that they could just print a letter of and predate.
IanJohnsonWS14
QUOTE (Blackcat73 @ Mon, 2 Oct 2017 - 09:29) *
The V5c is correct. In fact the response from the Police states that "...... a Notice of Intended Prosecution was initially sent in compliance to the registered keepers address (my address written out in full)" so they did have have correct address, although the house number was omitted.

What I can't understand is why they sent another NIP 15 days later that made no reference to the first NIP and which did not state it was a reminder and looked like it was a first NIP.

My opinion is that they did not sent the first one but I can't prove that. If I do contest in court whose not to say that they could just print a letter of and predate.


Is it present on the V5?
peterguk
QUOTE (Blackcat73 @ Mon, 2 Oct 2017 - 09:29) *
If I do contest in court whose not to say that they could just print a letter of and predate.


Why would they do that over a simple case of speeding?

To rely on good service, they would have to show the court a copy of the NIP and show when it entered to posdtal system (normally from a daily manifest)

Is your opinion worth risking £600+? If so, go to court. If not, suck it up.
Jlc
QUOTE (Blackcat73 @ Mon, 2 Oct 2017 - 09:29) *
although the house number was omitted.

This is strange but doesn't mean the NIP wasn't correctly addressed?

QUOTE (Blackcat73 @ Mon, 2 Oct 2017 - 09:29) *
What I can't understand is why they sent another NIP 15 days later that made no reference to the first NIP and which did not state it was a reminder and looked like it was a first NIP.

My opinion is that they did not sent the first one but I can't prove that. If I do contest in court whose not to say that they could just print a letter of and predate.

Something appears unusual but they are not usually in the habit of falsifying records/evidence.
cp8759
QUOTE (Blackcat73 @ Mon, 2 Oct 2017 - 09:29) *
The V5c is correct. In fact the response from the Police states that "...... a Notice of Intended Prosecution was initially sent in compliance to the registered keepers address (my address written out in full)" so they did have have correct address, although the house number was omitted.


If the house number is on the V5C then the first NIP was not correctly addressed. Therefore you have a decent evidential basis to show that the police have not discharged their duty to send the nip in such a way that it would be delivered in time.
This is *exactly* the kind of administrative cock-up the 14 day requirement is designed to protect you from.
Providing your address on the V5C includes the house number, I would suggest you reply naming yourself as the driver, and asking for the matter to be dealt with in court, on the basis that the first nip you actually received was out of time.

QUOTE (Blackcat73 @ Mon, 2 Oct 2017 - 09:29) *
My opinion is that they did not sent the first one but I can't prove that. If I do contest in court whose not to say that they could just print a letter of and predate.


It's far more likely that they sent it but it was never delivered due to the house number being missing. As they've admitted the first nip was sent with an incomplete address, it's a bit late to falsify the records now. If they provide a backdated nip with the correct address, their evidence will be contradictory and unreliable and the magistrates could be persuaded to disbelieve them.

But as others have said, they have no need to falsify evidence, it's not like they have any personal interest in getting you convicted so there's no reason anyone sending out NIPs would risk their job and prison to pervert the course of justice.
Jlc
AIUI they are not saying the NIP had the number missing but the response 'confirming' the address did omit it...
progbloke
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 2 Oct 2017 - 10:52) *
Providing your address on the V5C includes the house number, I would suggest you reply naming yourself as the driver, and asking for the matter to be dealt with in court, on the basis that the first nip you actually received was out of time.


Do this and you should receive the "defective" NIP (which presumably was sent back to them) that omits your house number.
peterguk
All we need is OP to tell us unequivocally whether house number is on V5C or not...
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