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Driver22
I hope the forum experts can help. This one seems complicated to me. Hope you are sitting comfortably.

It is a TfL congestion charge pcn for a leased car.

The lessees mother is registered disabled and exempt from the congestion charge if she registers a vehicle with TfL.
The disabled lady was taken to a hospital appointment in a new car. She said she would register it but forgot. Her poor memory is clinically diagnosed in her medical notes.


18/07/2017 TfL sent a pcn to the leasing company (received 21/07/17)
The pcn is addressed to a mixture of the lessees name with the leasing company address.

Mrs XXX (the lessee)
c/o xyz leasing company
Leasing company address

07/08/2017 Leasing company posts invoice to the lessee with a copy of the front of the pcn (received 08/08/2017)

"Fine Recharge - Offence Type - Congestion: £65 + Admin Fee: £10 = Total £70
To be taken by Direct Debit 20/08/2017 "

Here is the relevant contract clause;

"If any parking or speeding fines, congestion charges, or other such fines, duties or charges become payable to any third party in respect of the vehicle (but not including the vehicle licence duty), we may, at our discretion, choose to pay them on your behalf and re-charge them to you together with a £12.00 inc VAT administration fee for each charge or we may refer the third party to you."

We intend to open a formal dispute with them on these grounds:

1. A congestion charge pcn only "becomes payable" when the lessee-keeper accepts liability
or loses after a full appeal and adjudication process.

2. By paying/recharging they have denied the lessee the ability to make representations as offered in
the statutory process.

3. There are BVRLA (the industry trade association) guidelines for the leasing company to transfer liability to the lessee-keeper for them to deal with the pcn. They should have followed them.

4. As the pcn was addressed to the lessee c/o the leasing company they should have forwarded it to the lessee to deal with.


I realise a pcn isn't a fine or offence but does the contract give the company the right to pay and recharge?
Could it be an unfair contract term?

Are there any other issues to raise and any improvements and additions that forum members suggest please?
Incandescent
Not really much you can do here, the hire car company conditions for PCNs are very common. You could make a complaint that if they will pay PCNs and on-charge to the client, why did they not pay the discounted amount. Certainly you cannot appeal the PCN to TfL now.
hcandersen
This is TfL's website:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion...-and-exemptions

A BB is not an exemption, but it can qualify for 100% discount.

Up to two cars can be registered.

Pl explain where 'new' car comes from. At present we have the lessee with car X, which presumably is one of no more than two cars registered with TfL, and then 'new' car, Y. Whose new car, the lessee's? What were the circumstances of this, for how long had they had the car and was this a permanent arrangement? Ultimately they'd write to TfL asking for the PCN to be cancelled and money to be repaid under discretionary powers, but while 'I'd only had the car for a day and the BB user's trip into the zone was not planned is one thing', I changed it 6 months ago and had a week's prior notice of this journey is something else.


Driver22
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 08:38) *
Not really much you can do here, the hire car company conditions for PCNs are very common. You could make a complaint that if they will pay PCNs and on-charge to the client, why did they not pay the discounted amount. Certainly you cannot appeal the PCN to TfL now.

They did pay the discounted amount of £65. The full pcn is £130
Driver22
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 10:49) *
This is TfL's website:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion...-and-exemptions

A BB is not an exemption, but it can qualify for 100% discount.

Up to two cars can be registered.

Pl explain where 'new' car comes from. At present we have the lessee with car X, which presumably is one of no more than two cars registered with TfL, and then 'new' car, Y. Whose new car, the lessee's? What were the circumstances of this, for how long had they had the car and was this a permanent arrangement? Ultimately they'd write to TfL asking for the PCN to be cancelled and money to be repaid under discretionary powers, but while 'I'd only had the car for a day and the BB user's trip into the zone was not planned is one thing', I changed it 6 months ago and had a week's prior notice of this journey is something else.

The BB holders car and her daughter's previous car were registered with TfL for exemption.

The daughter changed her car for a new one on a two year lease a few weeks before the journey into the zone.

The daughter drove the BB holder to a pre-arranged hospital appointment in the new leased car.
The BB holder forgot to notify TfL of the change.
hcandersen
The BB holder forgot to notify TfL of the change.


.....in the fortnight which expired after she changed her car and during which the daughter probably did not de-register her original car! (NB if she did de-register the first car then pl confirm, also WHO registered the cars, the mother or the daughter?).

Sorry to be pointed, but this is what it comes to.

I don't think you should consider any formal remedies until you've exhausted informal ones.

I suggest that 'I' write to TfL and set out the story which is that 'I' am the lessee of VRM *** in respect of which PCN *** was issued to (the company) for a congestion charge contravention. The company paid.

The PCN arose because of an error - the £10 fee was still current, one of the registered cars was replaced (and here's the proof), simple oversight on mother's part to de-register, no more than two vehicles in use etc. The lease company were unaware that the vehicle was used at times to transport a BB holder, that the vehicle was therefore entitled to 100% discount regarding the congestion charge and that the PCN could certainly have been challenged and, subject to the authority's discretion, cancelled. In this respect no blame could be attached to the company.

I (the daughter) would ask TfL still consider exercising discretion on this occasion, albeit after the event, cancel the PCN and refund the penalty to the company.

And copy to the company with a light covering letter.

Driver22
HC thank you, especially for your eye for detail. A letter to TfL sounds like a good idea to try.

The mother always did the exemption registration and made any necessary changes. Her daughter confirms that was always the
arrangement.

The full scenario is that the mother has her own adapted car permanently registered with TfL. If she doesn't feel well enough to drive to the hospital her daughter or another family member takes her in their car, so the second car details may change. The mother might not know until the day before her appointment, or even the same day, which car to register as the second vehicle.

On this occasion the daughters previous car was still registered as the second vehicle and the mum didn't think to deregister it until she arranged for the daughter to drive her the next day. She wrote herself a post-it-note as a reminder to phone TfL in the morning. She says that it got misplaced under other papers on her table, she didn't see it and forgot to call.
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