Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Loading bay 'without loading' notice as I began loading
FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
Tom Moltecwicz
I've received a council PCN for "parking in a loading place during restricted hours without loading".

I parked (in a car, not a commercial vehicle - though insured for business use) in said loading bay next to the parking attendants when I arrived to pick up a catering order of 48 items (4 stacked boxes) from a shop on the opposite side of a shopping mall from the parking spot (the nearest loading bay to the shop in the mall) during a working midday.

Upon returning to the car, I found the parking attendants taking the final evidence photos of a parking ticket for the "parking in a loading place during restricted hours without loading" note.
The attendant was friendly and polite but advised that what he had seen me loading the car with didn't fulfil the criteria for 'loading' and that such a load should be of the size or weight that needed to be shifted by a 'wheel barrow or two-man team' - he did advise I should appeal as soon as possible if I wished to - it seemed like a subtle suggestion but I didn't want to read too much into it.

While my shipment wasn't quite sack barrow standards, it was awkward and fragile enough that I thought a loading bay would be justified.

Could you give me advise as to whether I should appeal and any information I should use?

Notable points:

  • Link to evidence and PCN
  • Bay was signposted as seen below
  • Supporting photos show the car boot opened for loading as I arrived back but do not show me loading, nor the shipment.
  • The bay looked narrower than a few threads mentioning a width of 2.7 metres minimum - it was just wide enough to fit my car at a width of 1.8 metres
  • The order was not made before collection as the catering shop needed a minimum lead time of 24 hours and I was asked to collect the order 3 hours before collection so had to make payment at the time of collection - thus I have a payment receipt not an invoice or delivery note.
  • The car was parked at a slight slant, that the front wheel was outside the box (embarrassing) but was not mentioned at any point.
  • The final sentence on the attendant's note was "DRIVER WAS POLITE AND UNDERSTANDING" - hopefully a kind of character reference to go in my favour?


Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Apologies if I have missed anything
DastardlyDick
You are entitled to the Loading exemption created by the bay and sign, so long as the goods being collected were pre-ordered and use of the vehicle was essential.

You need to write to the Council and explain (and provide proof) that the goods you were collecting were pre-ordered i.e you didn't spend time walking round a shop selecting the goods and account for why it took 10 minutes for you to get from A to B - checking the goods and paying for them are OK as is the distance between the two points, having a brew and a chat are not.
The CEO is wrong about the use of sack barrow etc, but the size/weight of the goods have to make use of the vehicle essential, for example a large painting may be OK, but collecting a couple of shirts from the cleaners may not.
Does this shopping mall not have a delivery area - most of them do - that you could have used?
DancingDad
QUOTE (DastardlyDick @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 09:35) *
........Does this shopping mall not have a delivery area - most of them do - that you could have used?


Irrelevant as far as this PCN is concerned, there is no test for necessity ie that you could have parked elsewhere.
May be pertinent to avoid situation in the future.

QUOTE
The order was not made before collection as the catering shop needed a minimum lead time of 24 hours and I was asked to collect the order 3 hours before collection so had to make payment at the time of collection - thus I have a payment receipt not an invoice or delivery note.

This may lead council to say that loading doesn't count as order wasn't pre-ordered.
However this is not a given even if a minus point.
There is a loading claim where a lady went to a charity shop to buy a table. (IIRC)
Knew what she wanted, that she would need to load it so used the loading bay.
The appeal failed not due to not pre-ordering but because while in the shop she looked around and purchased other items.... making it shopping.
Without that the decision would seem to have been in her favour.
Personally I would not say they were not pre-ordered, simply that you had to collect.

The other point it may fail on is the need.
48 items in 4 stacked boxes can mean anything from 4 dozen eggs to 4 cases of wine.
You must say what they were and give an indication of size, weight, bulk, fragility, whatever it was that made the loading a necessity not a convenience.
stamfordman
Have you got any pics of what you were loading? Or can replicate?
Tom Moltecwicz
Thank you all for your advice so far!

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 11:48) *
Have you got any pics of what you were loading? Or can replicate?


Yes, it was four of these dozen boxes stacked up (though with a more decorated topping on each one, hence more susceptible to ruining):

Example of collection items

hcandersen
OP, is there a missing point here?

On whose behalf were you collecting, your own or operating under instructions or a purchasing request from a third party who also made the arrangements with the supplier?

Details please.
Tom Moltecwicz
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 15:24) *
OP, is there a missing point here?

On whose behalf were you collecting, your own or operating under instructions or a purchasing request from a third party who also made the arrangements with the supplier?

Details please.


Apologies for the confusion - I was collecting this for the company in which I work. When we host clients, hold working lunches, etc. we will usually collect a bulk order from local shops, e.g. the above. I was requested to collect them but also essentially responsible for the arrangements as well.
hcandersen
I work for ***.

Part of my duties entail ***

I am supplied with a company vehicle/use my own vehicle for which I receive an allowance/claim mileage

On *** I was instructed by my manager/supervisor/whatever to collect *** from ****. I was instructed to pay for the goods on collection using the company account/pay for the items myself and claim on expenses or whatever

I parked at the location, went to the store, collected and paid for the items and made *** trips to my vehicle to load the items.

This sort of detail pl.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.