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DKDK
Good evening

Thank you for taking the time to read my post. I've just discovered this forum after getting a PCN yesterday in Liverpool which I'd like to challenge. I parked in a place innocently enough and had no idea I might be somewhere I could get a parking ticket - I am currently on benefits as am signed off from work so could really do with not throwing good money away on a parking ticket. That's the sob story over with, so here are the details....

I parked on a piece of derelict land where a house used to be - it has been knocked down. The land is surrounded on 3 sides by pavement and the pavement is surrounded by double yellow lines on the road. As the photos show, I was not parked on the road itself (mine is the black alfa romeo).

I received a council PCN (both sides of which are shown in the photos) saying I was parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours. But I don't believe I was parked IN the street - as I have said, I was on the piece of derelict land.

The PCN says my location is Burnand Street, but as the screenshot I have shown from google maps shows, it could be argued that I was technically on Hayfield St, which joins Burnand St (my car is the blue circle and the blue outline shows the derelict piece of land).

There were no signs on the land itself about who owned it or that you couldn't park on it.

The PCN says my car is a Skoda when it is actually an Alfa Romeo. The reg no and colour are correct.

Does anyone have any idea how best to challenge the ticket? I would be eternally grateful! I have had parking tickets in the past which I have been happy to accept as were down to my own stupidity or trying my luck but I was very shocked in this instance that my car and all the cars on that little piece of land got tickets as thought it was perfectly acceptable to park there.

I look forward to any replies and please ask any questions if you need more info.

Kind regards, D.

(ps. I might need to upload photos in numerous posts due to upload limits - I'll have to have a fiddle, apologies if I am doing something wrong!)



stamfordman
Use a site such as Flickr for pics and post the links - BBCode share links embed the pics on the forum.
PASTMYBEST
We need to see the council photos. try to use flicker or some other external hosting site
DKDK
photos of the car parked on the derelict land (mine is the black alfa)
StuartBu
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sun, 17 Sep 2017 - 23:30) *
Use a site such as Flickr for pics and post the links - BBCode share links embed the pics on the forum.

Why is it time after time new posters need to have this pointed out to them . I know theres a sticky explaining how to post pics but iirc it is hardly up to date and something needs to be done to get the message across.. e:g updating that post and preventing an initial post until they acknowledge they have read/ understood the instructions re posting pics.
DKDK
front of the pcn

map
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (DKDK @ Sun, 17 Sep 2017 - 23:36) *
photos of the car parked on the derelict land (mine is the black alfa)


if the council photos show the same an argument can be made. The DYL apply from the centre of the road to the property line. I would argue that that has not moved just because the property has been demolished
DKDK
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 17 Sep 2017 - 23:36) *
We need to see the council photos. try to use flicker or some other external hosting site


the photos that the council took you mean?? Are they available if I go on their website and put my pcn details in?

Apologies for how I've posted the photos by the way, I've just seen the posts re flickr etc
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (DKDK @ Sun, 17 Sep 2017 - 23:40) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 17 Sep 2017 - 23:36) *
We need to see the council photos. try to use flicker or some other external hosting site


the photos that the council took you mean?? Are they available if I go on their website and put my pcn details in?

Apologies for how I've posted the photos by the way, I've just seen the posts re flickr etc


it will probably tell you on the back of the PCN, we need to see that as well please post it
DKDK
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 17 Sep 2017 - 23:46) *
QUOTE (DKDK @ Sun, 17 Sep 2017 - 23:40) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 17 Sep 2017 - 23:36) *
We need to see the council photos. try to use flicker or some other external hosting site


the photos that the council took you mean?? Are they available if I go on their website and put my pcn details in?

Apologies for how I've posted the photos by the way, I've just seen the posts re flickr etc


it will probably tell you on the back of the PCN, we need to see that as well please post it


I can't see anything about viewing the photos the council took. The front and rear of the PCN are shown in all my previously attached photos

thanks for your replies people

is the fact they've written skoda and not alfa romeo something that would invalidate the PCN?

what about the fact the car could be argued to be parked on a different "street" (even though I don't believe it to be parked in a street at all!)

thank you
stamfordman
Go here:

https://parking.liverpool.gov.uk/pcn/

and see what there is.

The car make doesn't matter much - it's the car reg that does.

The status of the land will be key - the street facing may also be a factor as you say should the land be on the 'carriageway'.
DKDK
OK

this is very strange

I put my reg in (both with a space and without) and put the PCN number in (2 letters followed by 8 numbers) and it says:

The Penalty Charge Notice could not be found.
Please check that you have not mistyped.

I tried typing the PCN number with and without the 2 letters but kept getting the same message.

PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (DKDK @ Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 00:03) *
OK

this is very strange

I put my reg in (both with a space and without) and put the PCN number in (2 letters followed by 8 numbers) and it says:

The Penalty Charge Notice could not be found.
Please check that you have not mistyped.

I tried typing the PCN number with and without the 2 letters but kept getting the same message.



try again tomorrow, it might not have been updated yet
DKDK
even though the ticket was yesterday afternoon?

I got a bit excited then haha

how should i phrase my challenge then? does it allow me to post my photos if I do the challenge online?

thanks
DKDK
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 00:08) *
QUOTE (DKDK @ Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 00:03) *
OK

this is very strange

I put my reg in (both with a space and without) and put the PCN number in (2 letters followed by 8 numbers) and it says:

The Penalty Charge Notice could not be found.
Please check that you have not mistyped.

I tried typing the PCN number with and without the 2 letters but kept getting the same message.



try again tomorrow, it might not have been updated yet


please help!

I've been checking the online system every day and now suddenly the parking ticket has appeared, It hasn't been coming up as registered on the system. I even rang the office and they said it doesn't exist. I'm very angry as it was 2 weeks ago this saturday that I got the ticket and I haven't been able to challenge it as it hasn't shown up til now.

the 2 evidence photos that the council took are here https://imgur.com/a/d5UYP

PLEASE help me challenge this, based on the previous info in the above posts

thank you!

Neil B
I haven't looked at your case but for info -

your 14 days expires tomorrow.
DKDK
QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 28 Sep 2017 - 10:21) *
I haven't looked at your case but for info -

your 14 days expires tomorrow.


I know, hence why I'm angry! as I haven't been able to do anything about it because it didn't exist on their system til today

have you any thoughts on the case
peterguk
QUOTE (DKDK @ Thu, 28 Sep 2017 - 09:53) *
PLEASE help me challenge this


On what basis?

Council photos show bang to rights
Location would appear fine
Car make irrelevant
DKDK
QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 28 Sep 2017 - 10:26) *
QUOTE (DKDK @ Thu, 28 Sep 2017 - 09:53) *
PLEASE help me challenge this


On what basis?

Council photos show bang to rights
Location would appear fine
Car make irrelevant
you ask what basis but that's what I am here for advice on to be honest

in my eyes, I'm not parked "on a street" as the PCN says, my car is adjacent to a different road than the PCN says, I'm not on double yellows, I'm not on the pavement, I'm on a piece of land where a house has been knocked down and there were no signs saying not to park there

is there anything I can do? as i said, I'm signed off from work at the moment so money is very tight

thank you
PASTMYBEST
dear Mr parking

I challenge the issue of the above numbered PCN. My car was parked along with many others beyond the property line.as such no contravention occurs. in the alternative if it is deemed an area where the public have an unfettered right of access, then a legitimate expectation exists

Regards


keep it that simple you are placing the pieces for a long game
DKDK
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 28 Sep 2017 - 10:37) *
dear Mr parking

I challenge the issue of the above numbered PCN. My car was parked along with many others beyond the property line.as such no contravention occurs. in the alternative if it is deemed an area where the public have an unfettered right of access, then a legitimate expectation exists

Regards


keep it that simple you are placing the pieces for a long game

that is certainly very simple. there's nothing else I should say? or expand on?
hcandersen
OP, where is your GSV?

If it's the one here, then the houses have only recently been demolished. Prior to this the land was not part of the road therefore what makes the authority think that just because the houses have been razed (let them look it up!) this changes the status of the land or extent of the road?


https://goo.gl/maps/1wgVofMWTwF2



DKDK
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Thu, 28 Sep 2017 - 11:26) *
OP, where is your GSV?

If it's the one here, then the houses have only recently been demolished. Prior to this the land was not part of the road therefore what makes the authority think that just because the houses have been razed (let them look it up!) this changes the status of the land or extent of the road?


https://goo.gl/maps/1wgVofMWTwF2

exactly what I was thinking.

and it's very recently been demolished yes!
DancingDad
QUOTE (DKDK @ Thu, 28 Sep 2017 - 10:49) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 28 Sep 2017 - 10:37) *
dear Mr parking

I challenge the issue of the above numbered PCN. My car was parked along with many others beyond the property line.as such no contravention occurs. in the alternative if it is deemed an area where the public have an unfettered right of access, then a legitimate expectation exists

Regards


keep it that simple you are placing the pieces for a long game

that is certainly very simple. there's nothing else I should say? or expand on?


No.
There is a simple distinction between parking on highway and off highway.
You are off highway.
Council probably won't accept it but until you get the ball rolling, you won't know.
Long game says this will probably go to adjudication but again, we don't know until you challenge and get an answer.
hcandersen
??

Just think it through. The main value of a house is the value of the land on which it stands - just look up RICS rebuilding costs if you're in doubt.

And if the value of the land was vastly diminished because as soon as the house had gone the public had access over the land then it would remove on of the main planks of the UK's economic model.

Just make the case to the authority.

I parked on an area of land which until recently had been occupied by a house. No doubt someone will soon bring this areea back into productive use or possibly even prevent motorists from parking. But this lies with the owner of the land, not the enforcement authority (and just so that you're clear, even if the council own the land, it does not make it public land). You cannot just extend the scope of yellow lines into what a few months ago would have been someone's sitting room. Under what legal theory would this work - the yellow line is effective up to the building line and so if the building is razed this moves the limit of the yellow line forward? I am certain you understand that this is not the case, the limits of the yellow line are where they were before, building or not.

The CEO made a mistake and the PCN must be cancelled.
PASTMYBEST
Use mine or HCA's but to preserve the discount (if it is re offered)you must submit today
DKDK
thanks guys!!!!!

doing it now

thanks for your help
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