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Rusty2009
Good morning all,

This is my first post so apology's if it's in the wrong area.

On Saturday 2nd Sept 2017 the driver had a PCN put on the car by Devere Parking Services Ltd.

Time on ticket is from 18:48 to 18:53 (5 minutes).

the driver is a home career and was at the clients address and parked in the clients car park without display a permit.

The driver could not use the clients permit as their son has the permit for when he visits.

Now given the fact the driver has parked there many times before without being given a PCN as have all colleges one can only assume the company was out due to airshow being on.

What would be the best way to handle this now?

I have thought of ignoring it but I like to get things dealt with, so would it be best to appeal it and explain the driver was carrying out their duty with a client at the property?

I have told her to ask the employer if they could provide a letter on headed paper confirming they were there working.

Thanks in advance
Rusty.
kommando
Edit your post so the drivers identity is not inferred.
TheMisterMan
It would be useful if you could upload a copy of the PCN with any personal details and reference numbers redacted.

Also, as the previous reply says you will want to edit your post and refer to the driver as "the driver".
Jlc
QUOTE (Rusty2009 @ Mon, 4 Sep 2017 - 11:42) *
. is a home career and . was at the clients address and parked in the clients car park without display a permit.
I have thought of ignoring it but I like to get things dealt with, so would be best to appeal it and explain the . was carrying out . duty with a client at the property?

They are quite litigious so ignoring it would likely end in a court claim.

On the face of it the driver appears to have parked in contrary to the displayed term and conditions.

QUOTE (Rusty2009 @ Mon, 4 Sep 2017 - 11:42) *
I have told her to ask . employer if they could provide a letter on headed paper confirming . was there working.

Yes, but in the parking company's eyes the driver was parked without a permit - they will almost certainly reject any appeal.

There are ways to fight but they are unlikely to relent easily. Can the client assist in any way?

A previous lack of PCN's doesn't assist in any way (other than being 'lucky') - and I would further visits should seek to comply.
ostell
The client's car park. Is this a block of flats, or similar, and the client is a resident? Does the resident own or rent the accommodation?
Rusty2009
Thank-you for your replies.

I've edited the post.

Ok I'll answer the questions as best as I can.

Upload of PCN attached.


I'm not sure how the client could help to be honest.

How is one meant to comply when the only permit has been handed to a family member?

Also given the timing on the ticket being only 5 minutes on each visit all staff would have to park make their way up to the 7th floor await the client to answer the door get the permit (if it were left) make their way back down & place permit on dash & again repeat when leaving, now this could take longer than 5 minutes and in that time they risk getting a PCN.

Yes it's a block of flats yes the client lives on the 7th floor.
I couldn't say if they own or rent the flat, I don't know the full address etc due Data confidentiality etc.

Jlc
QUOTE (Rusty2009 @ Mon, 4 Sep 2017 - 14:32) *
How is one meant to comply when the only permit has been handed to a family member?

You don't park. (Unless you accept the conditions - that is to pay £60/£100)

QUOTE (Rusty2009 @ Mon, 4 Sep 2017 - 14:32) *
Also given the timing on the ticket being only 5 minutes on each visit all staff would have to park make their way up to the 7th floor await the client to answer the door get the permit (if it were left) make their way back down & place permit on dash & again repeat when leaving, now this could take longer than 5 minutes and in that time they risk getting a PCN.

But that's not what happened. There are grace periods etc. for this but it's not unusual for PCN's to be issued whilst fetching the permit.

As this appears to be a regular thing I would suggest your company (?) engages with the management company (?) and the parking company to find a solution - otherwise this won't be the last PCN...
Rusty2009
Thank Jlc,

So in other words pay it?

The company don't want to know their attitude is it's down to you to supply permits etc.

Think how many £££'s that would cost a career in all the different permits needed to park in every area where parking restrictions etc apply.
cabbyman
Is this a windscreen ticket? If so, appeal at day 25/26 as RK. Hopefully, they will rub their hands in glee at having the RK's details they will forget to obtain them from the DVLA, as required under the act.

Others will be along with more ideas. Some more positive.
Jlc
QUOTE (Rusty2009 @ Mon, 4 Sep 2017 - 15:03) *
So in other words pay it?

Not what I said - perhaps what I've said could be perceived as 'negative' but...

QUOTE (Rusty2009 @ Mon, 4 Sep 2017 - 15:03) *
The company don't want to know their attitude is it's down to you to supply permits etc.

Think how many £££'s that would cost a career in all the different permits needed to park in every area where parking restrictions etc apply.

...you can't ignore the restrictions in private car parks. They are potentially enforceable and can give pain.

QUOTE (cabbyman @ Mon, 4 Sep 2017 - 15:06) *
Is this a windscreen ticket? If so, appeal at day 25/26 as RK. Hopefully, they will rub their hands in glee at having the RK's details they will forget to obtain them from the DVLA, as required under the act.

Others will be along with more ideas. Some more positive.

It sounds like the OP doesn't own the vehicle. One option is to appeal as the 'keeper' close to the cut off. (Although IPC tickets only usually give 21 days to appeal)

Make sure not to infer the driver.
Rusty2009
Yes its a windscreen ticket.

That's correct I don't own the vehicle.
Jlc
QUOTE (Rusty2009 @ Mon, 4 Sep 2017 - 15:51) *
Yes its a windscreen ticket.

That's correct I don't own the vehicle.

Then it might be best to appeal as the 'keeper' before they access the DVLA. (Depends on how the registered keeper will respond?)
whjohnson
In what way does this situation differ from those where leaseholder has primacy over PPC contract?

Surely the leaeholder's contract trumps anything else?
Jlc
QUOTE (whjohnson @ Mon, 4 Sep 2017 - 16:31) *
In what way does this situation differ from those where leaseholder has primacy over PPC contract?

Surely the leaseholder's contract trumps anything else?

But it's not the OP's lease. However, it can happen - here.

But without seeing the wording it's impossible to comment further. It could be a communal area that is not covered by the resident's leases...
Rusty2009
The RK is not a issue will do what I say.

Would it help to get pics of the signage?
TheMisterMan
QUOTE (Rusty2009 @ Mon, 4 Sep 2017 - 17:00) *
Would it help to get pics of the signage?


That might be useful. It could also be useful to get pictures of a lack of signage. E.g. if there is a clear entrance to a car park with no signs, or if there are parking spots from which no signs are visible.
knightstyle
I am not an expert but several cases have been won by the car keeper parking in a designated parking bay at a block of flats. The winning case seems to rely on the wording of the flat lease. Does this state a permit must be displayed in order to park? If not then you will/should win and will not have to pay anything.
So get the flat owner to give you a copy of the lease. Remember that this lease cannot be changed without signed agreement of the leaseholder. So no mention of a permit means it is not required no mater what signs a cowboy parking firm put up!
But do not ignore any letters, you can appeal to the parking company, then to IPC or similar, these appeals will probably be turned down but still do not pay these scammers anything.
kommando
QUOTE
you can appeal to the parking company, then to IPC


Never appeal to the IPC, this is Gladstones and they use the appeals to pick the cases suitable for claims, and guarantee 85% success rate for the PPC.

POPLA is different, you do appeal to them but in this case it would not be possible.
Rusty2009
I shall get some pictures tomorrow.

Get a copy of a lease could prove difficult.
Rusty2009
Hi guy's ok I got the pic's.

















The driver is sure that the client owns the flat, but will ask next time they are there.
Half_way
you should double down on getting hold of the lease, however the sights look good for you, prohibitive, and fall the beavis test I several fronts, so the parking eye v beavis cas is helpful to you.
nosferatu1001
Those signs are appalling.
Rusty2009
QUOTE (Half_way @ Tue, 5 Sep 2017 - 11:13) *
you should double down on getting hold of the lease, however the sights look good for you, prohibitive, and fall the beavis test I several fronts, so the parking eye v beavis cas is helpful to you.


The driver will ask about the lease when there next. is there a case you have in mind I should look at I did a search and so many results popped up.

QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 5 Sep 2017 - 12:18) *
Those signs are appalling.


That was my thoughts.
nosferatu1001
Jopson vs home guard is the obvious one. Check parking prankster as well

It's more

They prohibit you from parking
Any parking charge is so hidden as to be useless. Fails the prominence requirement s
Wording too small. Can't easily be seen on the way in.
Half_way
in my opinion the signs are excellent, th jet put the no unauthorised message across well, keeping trespassers at bay, and nobble any chance of ppc success. They may as well top it off with a warning about clamping.
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