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Full Version: [NIP Wizard] multiple offences, same place, to outdated v5 addres
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
kbo
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - June 2017
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A338 Wessex way, dean park bournemouth
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 6
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Due to multiple address changes in the last 3 years, I could not keep up with updating the V5, and as such could not react to speed offences/letter sent to old addresse in northern ireland.
First speed offence happened on Wessex way near Bournemouth in January, I did not realize this until I got a message from my old landlady claiming an important letter from court -ordering me to pay 800£ / and take notice of penality : 6 points. that is around the 14th of June of this year
I immediately called central ticket office, to find out, there were 4 more offences , with nip serverd to old address, 4 of them happened in the same place (Wessex way).
I wonder what is the best course of action? going to court seems inevitable, what then ? ask for leniency ? on the basis I was not aware of any of the offence til very end ? ...please help


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Unsure
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sun, 16 Jul 2017 23:18:48 +0000
StuartBu
Sounds like a job for a Statutory Declaration for the January one but others will advise about this and about the other 4 .
Any specific reason why you didnt change your address on the V5C- have you taken steps to sort this now. did you give your present address when you phoned up?
Logician
Yes, you need to do a statutory declaration in respect of this offence which will be a s.172 offence rather than the speeding it refers to; that will set aside your conviction and the process will re-start so you will be asked how you plead, you need to indicate not guilty for both the s.172 and the speeding if that is also listed, as hopefully it will be. That will result in a date for a trial being set, on that occasion you can hopefully agree with the prosecutor that the s.172 charge will be dropped if you agree to plead guilty to the speeding. You also need to get the other four cases heard on the same occasion to avoid complications. As you already have 6 points and there are two locations involved in the five cases you refer to, even the most sympathetic court will give you a further 6 points so you will become a totter, liable to be disqualified for a minimum of 6 months, unless you can show this would cause exceptional hardship to yourself or, more significantly, other people. I doubt the court will be overly sympathetic, given that your failure to receive the NIPs is owing to your own inaction in not updating the V5C or arranging forwarding of your post, but you should certainly ask.
Jlc
QUOTE (kbo @ Mon, 17 Jul 2017 - 00:18) *
Due to multiple address changes in the last 3 years, I could not keep up with updating the V5, and as such could not react to speed offences/letter sent to old addresse in northern ireland.

You'll have to expand - it's not that difficult to update the v5 and is a requirement to do so.

QUOTE (kbo @ Mon, 17 Jul 2017 - 00:18) *
I wonder what is the best course of action? going to court seems inevitable, what then ? ask for leniency ? on the basis I was not aware of any of the offence til very end ? ...please help[/b]

Logician has summarised but it appears all roads lead to an exceptional hardship plea to continue driving. 'Leniency' isn't going to help here - the Police may have considered some for repeated offences at the time depending on the circumstances. The sentencing guidelines and processes are fairly much set but if your licence hasn't been revoked already then you can continue driving for now. (It's not clear if the 6 points you listed predate the most recent 6 mentioned)
The Rookie
QUOTE (kbo @ Mon, 17 Jul 2017 - 00:18) *
First speed offence happened on Wessex way near Bournemouth in January, I did not realize this until I got a message from my old landlady claiming an important letter from court -ordering me to pay 800£ / and take notice of penalty : 6 points. that is around the 14th of June of this year

You have/had 21 days from when you found out about the court case in which to perform a statutory declaration, so you need to get a weave on if its not to late.

With 5 cases against you you'll be facing a 6 month totting ban anyway.

You can do the SD at a solicitors at a cost of £10 or do it for free at your local court when you'll have to plead not guilty in order to try and do the plea bargain at a subsequent hearing.
kbo
S[quote]
Sounds like a job for a Statutory Declaration for the January one but others will advise about this and about the other 4 .
Any specific reason why you didnt change your address on the V5C- have you taken steps to sort this now. did you give your present address when you phoned up?
[/quotend]

Yes I gave the police and court, my current address: I would not have received the "copy" NIP/section172 otherwise. I have lived an average of 5-6 months in any given shared house since 2014. even staying abroad ...few months /weeks
I neglected the paperwork I have to admit. I am fixing it now
kbo
QUOTE (Logician @ Mon, 17 Jul 2017 - 09:40) *
Yes, you need to do a statutory declaration in respect of this offence which will be a s.172 offence rather than the speeding it refers to; that will set aside your conviction and the process will re-start so you will be asked how you plead, you need to indicate not guilty for both the s.172 and the speeding if that is also listed, as hopefully it will be. That will result in a date for a trial being set, on that occasion you can hopefully agree with the prosecutor that the s.172 charge will be dropped if you agree to plead guilty to the speeding. You also need to get the other four cases heard on the same occasion to avoid complications. As you already have 6 points and there are two locations involved in the five cases you refer to, even the most sympathetic court will give you a further 6 points so you will become a totter, liable to be disqualified for a minimum of 6 months, unless you can show this would cause exceptional hardship to yourself or, more significantly, other people. I doubt the court will be overly sympathetic, given that your failure to receive the NIPs is owing to your own inaction in not updating the V5C or arranging forwarding of your post, but you should certainly ask.


I was fined 800 £, and 6 point for the first s.172, I am wondering if could ask for speed awareness course for the single offense which happened in different location on one side, and make a statutory declaration for the first offense, on wessex way, and try to get a court hearing for the 3 other offenses in the same location bundled together.

I have had to live an average of few weeks to few months in UK shared house and abroad for the last 3 years, sometimes working sometimes un-employed. I have to admit I neglected the aspect of paperwork, I was hoping some leniency plea for that, I know it is naïve, but it all I have
southpaw82
The course option is long gone.
kbo
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 17 Jul 2017 - 10:29) *
QUOTE (kbo @ Mon, 17 Jul 2017 - 00:18) *
First speed offence happened on Wessex way near Bournemouth in January, I did not realize this until I got a message from my old landlady claiming an important letter from court -ordering me to pay 800£ / and take notice of penalty : 6 points. that is around the 14th of June of this year

You have/had 21 days from when you found out about the court case in which to perform a statutory declaration, so you need to get a weave on if its not to late.

With 5 cases against you you'll be facing a 6 month totting ban anyway.

You can do the SD at a solicitors at a cost of £10 or do it for free at your local court when you'll have to plead not guilty in order to try and do the plea bargain at a subsequent hearing.


Sorry meant 14 July not June. I am expecting a call from court/admin about the SD. Not sure what you mean by "you'll have to plead not guilty in order to try and do the plea bargain at a subsequent hearing".
Is it pleading not guilty for the S.172, to bargain a guilty plea for the speed offence ?

QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 17 Jul 2017 - 09:57) *
QUOTE (kbo @ Mon, 17 Jul 2017 - 00:18) *
Due to multiple address changes in the last 3 years, I could not keep up with updating the V5, and as such could not react to speed offences/letter sent to old addresse in northern ireland.

You'll have to expand - it's not that difficult to update the v5 and is a requirement to do so.

QUOTE (kbo @ Mon, 17 Jul 2017 - 00:18) *
I wonder what is the best course of action? going to court seems inevitable, what then ? ask for leniency ? on the basis I was not aware of any of the offence til very end ? ...please help[/b]

Logician has summarised but it appears all roads lead to an exceptional hardship plea to continue driving. 'Leniency' isn't going to help here - the Police may have considered some for repeated offences at the time depending on the circumstances. The sentencing guidelines and processes are fairly much set but if your licence hasn't been revoked already then you can continue driving for now. (It's not clear if the 6 points you listed predate the most recent 6 mentioned)


- Well since my last address in Northern Ireland, had to change address: 9 times in matter of less than 3 years, in different countries sometimes for job purposes,/un-employment. . Relaying mails, changing addresses when you stay sometimes few months or even few weeks in a given place, is not that obvious
-
jewels2009
QUOTE (kbo @ Mon, 17 Jul 2017 - 13:22) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 17 Jul 2017 - 10:29) *
QUOTE (kbo @ Mon, 17 Jul 2017 - 00:18) *
First speed offence happened on Wessex way near Bournemouth in January, I did not realize this until I got a message from my old landlady claiming an important letter from court -ordering me to pay 800£ / and take notice of penalty : 6 points. that is around the 14th of June of this year

You have/had 21 days from when you found out about the court case in which to perform a statutory declaration, so you need to get a weave on if its not to late.

With 5 cases against you you'll be facing a 6 month totting ban anyway.

You can do the SD at a solicitors at a cost of £10 or do it for free at your local court when you'll have to plead not guilty in order to try and do the plea bargain at a subsequent hearing.


Sorry meant 14 July not June. I am expecting a call from court/admin about the SD. Not sure what you mean by "you'll have to plead not guilty in order to try and do the plea bargain at a subsequent hearing".
Is it pleading not guilty for the S.172, to bargain a guilty plea for the speed offence ?


Correct. In order to bargain you need both on the table, so NG to both, until court and bargain.
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