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Full Version: One Parking Solution PCN (woodcutter court) Andover

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Flobber

Sun, 18 Jun 2017 - 14:25

Hello Again, after successfully appealing against 3 PCNs with forum help, I am back again with more toilet paper from a PPC.

A family member (RK) received attached PCN as the driver had stopped off to pick up a friend from their residence, and decided not to block any other resident's parking space by keeping out of the way. As you can see the contravention time on the speculative invoice is 1 minute and 52 seconds

I would ask the resident to check their lease, but believe there are many technical failures with signs and PCN for it not to matter, but will wait for the communities advice. Also it is apparent from the GSV, the PPC did not appear to be involved on the housing development originally.

From the PCN I can see no reliance on pofa, the signs are barely readable even close up with reading glasses on, very prohibitive, and both PCN and the companies signs show both the BPA and the IPC logos, the latter they are no longer members of.

I am guessing that a standard template letter from the RK should see these clowns off.

I believe the resident has already paid OPS for a PCN received by a previous guest, I will make sure they are aware of how to procede should anyone else get hit by the greedy PPC.

Google Street View Below.

GSV of Woodcutter

SchoolRunMum

Sun, 18 Jun 2017 - 16:06

Hahaha, that sign on the wall is right next to a very large one from the landowner, completely forbidding any parking at any time! So some random PPC can't pretend they are offering a 'contract' to allow the very conduct that the landowner/agent for the site forbids.

And the sign on the fence is also in tiny writing with the vital word 'parking' obscured. Apparently 'ING' is permitted for drivers with a permit. But we know it is not, at that brick wall area, and the sign offers no parking licence to non permit holders. So there was no agreed contract, and the only remedy would have been for the landowner to pursue the matter under tort (trespass).

Lynnzer

Mon, 19 Jun 2017 - 20:46

QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Sun, 18 Jun 2017 - 17:06)

Could'a got a larger twig to place in front of the sign though.....
Just my sideways take on things. Will remember that for future "expeditions".

Flobber

Thu, 22 Jun 2017 - 09:21

Have been doing some background checks, and spoken with Radian (company that owns/runs this development) and the local council.

I have requested information from Radian about their contract with OPS, as they are the landholder. Will hopefully get a reply next tuesday as the housing officer is on holiday.

Our local Planning officer has confirmed no planning permission has been sought for the OPS signs on this site, but as they have not seen them are unsure if PP is required. My understanding of the Gov.uk guidance Outdoor advertisments and signs is that this falls into a catagory where Planning Permission is required.

I am also waiting on the resident who was being picked up finding their lease/tennancy agreement.

Any thoughts on the sinage and it's legality?

ostell

Thu, 22 Jun 2017 - 09:45

The signs should have advertising consent. Failure is a criminal offence

Lynnzer

Thu, 22 Jun 2017 - 09:54

It's not Planning Pemission they need.
They have to go for consent under The Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007

The size of the sign is the thing to look at to see if consent is needed

Flobber

Thu, 22 Jun 2017 - 10:47

This one, the link did not work.

Control of Advertisements pdf

Will call in there later to measure and compare, and try to avoid reveiving an invoice myself

Flobber

Wed, 28 Jun 2017 - 12:13

So I have managed to measure up the signs on site, hopefully not getting Papped in the process.

They measure 456mm x 456mm, total area of 0.208M, class (2A) gives a max of 0.3M so they seem to be within the limit where consent is not required.

Radian homes the landowner confirm they have a contract with OPS, who were taken on last year, and have promised to send me a copy.

I will post the MSE standard response here, but will possibly add in re the grace period and confusion regarding their trade body on both signs and PCN if this will help, or do you think hold that back for POPLA?

QUOTE

Mr Any Name
999 Letsbe Avenue
Somwhere UK
AB12 3CD

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

M Mouse

ostell

Wed, 28 Jun 2017 - 14:24

Having read that NTK it is so not POFA compliant, unless there are further POFA details on the reverse. I think a simple BOGOF stating that the notice is not compliant with POFA and therefore the keeper cannot be held liable and there can be absolutely no presumption that the keeper was the driver. The driver, who will not be named as there is no requirement, has been informed of the notice and he may get in touch with you as he, as you state, is the person liable.

Flobber

Wed, 28 Jun 2017 - 21:28

Rear of pcn, no mention of relying on POFA

ostell

Wed, 28 Jun 2017 - 21:56

So add in to your appeal that they have failed to comply with the requirements of POFA schedule 4 paragraph 9 to hold the keeper liable.

You also expect no further communication from them.

This should get you a POPLA appeal number and tht non POFA compliance should be a winner.

Flobber

Mon, 3 Jul 2017 - 08:15

So added in the POFA reference, think its all ready for the RK to forward to OPS.

QUOTE

Mr Any Name
999 Letsbe Avenue
Somwhere, UK
AB12 3CD

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You have failed to comply with the requirements of POFA schedule 4 paragraph 9 to hold the keeper liable, therefore the only communication I expect from you is confirmation that this PCN has been cancelled.

Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

M Mouse

Flobber

Wed, 5 Jul 2017 - 13:24

Anyone else had problems submitting online appeals to OPS through their online portal?

Flobber

Sat, 8 Jul 2017 - 10:04

Thanks for help and advice forum gurus, another back down from OPS

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