SY78
Sun, 28 May 2017 - 15:00
I have a complicated problem with a PCN:
1. Hackney council issued me with a parking permit in february 2017 with the wrong date on it, which i didn't realise initially
2. i fixed it to my car then returned 3 days later to find 2 PCNs, dated 6th and 8th february
3. i successfully appealed both of these on the grounds that the council sent the wrong permit, and the charges were cancelled
I relatively recently moved to London and was uncertain how long i'd be staying in my current flat, so I hadn't changed the address on my car registration from that of my parents. I did have a mail redirection but it ran out a couple of months ago and i completely forgot to renew.
I got my mail from my parents to find:
1. a notice to owner AND a charge certificate for a PCn issued on 7th February that was not affixed to my car when i found the other two. These are dated 6th april 2017 and 10th May 2017.
2. I tried to appeal online but I can't as the charge certificate has been issued, but I do not have an enforcement notice (yet). I obviously would have appealed this PCN as well if i'd been aware of it at the time.
3. I seem to be in limbo- no enforcement notice so i can't go to the county court to appeal, and i can't appeal on the council website. What else can I do? I have looked on the forums and it seems i have to wait until i get an enforcement notice then complete a witness statement. is that correct?
any help appreciated. I do not want enforcement officers at my door (or my parents'). I have now changed my car registration address with the dvla...
Thanks
DancingDad
Sun, 28 May 2017 - 15:20
What is date of Charge Certificate ?
Am I reading right 10th May ?
System is... Charge Certificate
Then after 14 days an penalty can be registered at TEC (Traffic Enforcement Court, Northampton) and an Order for Recovery served.
That OfR includes a witness statement that can be used (if grounds are valid) to get the CC and OfR cancelled and a new NTO sent.
Thus opening the way to challenge.
So if 10th May is date of CC, the next notice should be the OfR, not an enforcement notice and you will/should be able to deal with it.
It will still be sent to your parents so I would make a specific arrangement with them to open your mail or whatever, you do not want to miss this, right awkward if you do
Strictly speaking, you did not receive the NTO (in time) which is one of the grounds.
But self inflicted as you also did not update details with DVLA or make postal arrangements that worked.
SY78
Sun, 28 May 2017 - 15:41
Thanks. Yes the charge certificate is dated 10th May.
Can I appeal on the grounds that there was no PCN affixed to my vehicle so I wasn't aware? (Proof being that I successfully appealed the other two PCNs issued that week and would have done the same had I received this one)?
DancingDad
Sun, 28 May 2017 - 16:04
QUOTE (SY78 @ Sun, 28 May 2017 - 16:41)
Thanks. Yes the charge certificate is dated 10th May.
Can I appeal on the grounds that there was no PCN affixed to my vehicle so I wasn't aware? (Proof being that I successfully appealed the other two PCNs issued that week and would have done the same had I received this one)?
Nope
The grounds do not include.
hcandersen
Sun, 28 May 2017 - 21:55
3. i successfully appealed both of these on the grounds that the council sent the wrong permit, and the charges were cancelled
And the authority's letters notifying you of these? Pl post and your challenges. And leave in dates.
I envisage a straightforward letter: I refer to your letters dated *** cancelling PCNs issued to me on 6 and 8 Feb. for the reasons set out in my letter(s) dated ***** i.e. that the council had ******.
I now find that you also issued a PCN dated 7 Feb. which you are still pursuing, you have even issued a Charge Certificate dated ***. I don't know how this slipped through your checks or mine, but clearly this PCN should be cancelled as were the others.
Thank you.
SY78
Wed, 31 May 2017 - 18:32
thank you- i do still have the council's letters. should i wait for the OfR or just send to the council?
thanks
John U.K.
Wed, 31 May 2017 - 18:41
QUOTE
thank you- i do still have the council's letters. should i wait for the OfR or just send to the council?
Enclose
copies of the letters with HCA's letter
PASTMYBEST
Wed, 31 May 2017 - 20:38
QUOTE (John U.K. @ Wed, 31 May 2017 - 19:41)
QUOTE
thank you- i do still have the council's letters. should i wait for the OfR or just send to the council?
Enclose
copies of the letters with HCA's letter
If/when the OfR arrives deal with it as per the regulations. Do not think any letter to the council will suffice
hcandersen
Wed, 31 May 2017 - 21:26
Why not? Their error is clear and there is no basis to pursue the penalty other than they haven't been told that they've made a mistake.
A straightforward letter is IMO the way to go now - so get on with it. It's not accusatory, it's observational, so don't tinker with it to make it confrontational, it's not necessary. And it's all grist to the mill if you get to adjudication.
SY78
Sun, 4 Jun 2017 - 19:00
Thank you all. Have sent the letter to thr council so will await the response. No OfR yet despite it being well over 2 weeks since charge certificate was received
SY78
Sun, 25 Jun 2017 - 09:20
Update- success!
I sent a letter (text copy and pasted below) to Hackney council. They replied with a letter cancelling the PCN. Reason given is interesting "this is because we are unable to process the penalty charge within the legal guidelines due to a system error". I have uploaded a photo of this.
thanks for all your help.
Text of my original letter:
Hackney Parking Services
PO Box 39055
London
E8 1WT
4th June 2017
Re: PCN QZ00568198 issued 7th February 2017
Dear Sir/Madam
I refer to your letters dated Friday 24th February 2017 cancelling PCNs issued to me on 6th and 8th Feb (refs QZ00575105 andQZ00524512), on the basis that Hackney council had issued me with an incorrect parking permit with the wrong date on it.
I now find that you also issued a PCN dated 7th Feb, which was not affixed to my car at the same time as the others that I found. You are still pursuing this PCN and you have even issued a Charge Certificate dated 10/5/17. I don't know how this slipped through your checks or mine, but it is clear that this PCN should be cancelled for the same reason that the others were.
I enclose photocopies of the PCNs hat were attached to my car (dated 6th and 8th Feb), letters from yourselves cancelling these PCNs, and photocopies of the permits you issued, which demonstrate that the second permit issued was for the wrong date, after I had renewed my parking permit for a further 6 months. As soon as I discovered the error, I called and arranged for a new parking permit to be issued with the correct date on it.
I would be grateful if you could cancel the PCN so that this matter can be resolved once and for all.
Kind regards.
Incandescent
Sun, 25 Jun 2017 - 18:24
Well done !! HCA is one of our best advisers although he can be a wee bit of a curmudgeon sometimes. His heart is definitely in the right place. Me, I just get very cross with council bureaucrats, hence my self-selected title
hcandersen
Mon, 26 Jun 2017 - 07:35
Curmudgeonly, you should hear what my wife calls me!
SY78
Sun, 2 Jul 2017 - 22:32
Thanks all of you and especially HCA. I didn't detect any curmudgeonliness
I would've just waited sweating and anxious for the OfR otherwise. Will also pay extra attention to ANYTHING the council sends now on.
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