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bathroomsoflondon
Hi, my partner got a NIP for doing 46mph in a 40mph. I feel a bit sorry for her as she does not usually go to work along this road and I recommended she take this route.

Anyway, the speed sign directly before the camera is in a very faded state, please see attached picture. Additionally, you are coming down from a 60mph zone to a 40mph, the sun was clearly in her eyes as it was early in the morning and I just think it is a bit unfair. The markings on the road are on the other side of the road so one would assume this is not a forward facing camera but it clearly is. This is the second ticket she has had in the exact same location. Previous was for 44mph and she has already done a speed awareness course for this. Just seems a bit harsh.

Will gladly donate some cash for any helpful responses.

Picture of car

Picture of sign
andy_foster
The front wheels are within the markings - which constitutes the secondary check. The statutory defence for defective signage does not apply where there is a complaint system of street lighting. Such a system without any signs to the contrary would indicate a 30mph limit, so the fact that the 40mph is not as easy to read as it should be is unlikely to garner much sympathy.

The faded sign is a repeater. If the terminal signs were defective, and she had only been in the 40 limit for a short distance, there might be an argument, but nothing you have told us suggests any viable defence.

N.B. I very much doubt that she got a NIP previously for 44 in a 40 limit (or that playing Chinese whispers benefits anyone).
The Rookie
Having been caught once at the same location it would be hard to argue she wasn't aware of the limit wouldn't it?

As straws go this doesn't look a good one to be clutching at in all honesty.

Do you have a google street view link?
NewJudge
Looking at the shadows it seems the sun was at about 2 o'clock to the front of the car. I think your money is safe. cool.gif
Jlc
QUOTE (bathroomsoflondon @ Sat, 20 May 2017 - 18:49) *
The markings on the road are on the other side of the road so one would assume this is not a forward facing camera but it clearly is.

It appears there is a camera on the other side but this is clearly a Truvelo - you can even see the magenta tinge. It works by sensors under the road and then a delay is calculated for the front wheels to be in the check marks. As already noted the speed is corroborated.

Do you have a location? The signage seems a non-starter, especially if terminal signs were passed.
notmeatloaf
The rules of signage have changed recently so that now the requirement is to give "adequate guidance" of the limit rather than set minimums. It would, to be honest, be rare to find non-compliant signage around a camera but you never know.

Filling out the NIP Wizard gives us a fuil set of facts in case there are any other flies in the ointment to capitalise on.
bathroomsoflondon
Thank you for all your responses. I find it strange that the signage for the speed limit going the other direction is pristine yet when travelling in the other direction, the signage is seriously faded. Seems a bit odd. Plus coming down from a 60 to a 40mph, is there nothing about this in traffic regulations?
morrisman
QUOTE (bathroomsoflondon @ Tue, 23 May 2017 - 21:49) *
Plus coming down from a 60 to a 40mph, is there nothing about this in traffic regulations?


NSL to 30 is common so why not NSL to 40?
notmeatloaf
QUOTE (bathroomsoflondon @ Tue, 23 May 2017 - 21:49) *
Thank you for all your responses. I find it strange that the signage for the speed limit going the other direction is pristine yet when travelling in the other direction, the signage is seriously faded. Seems a bit odd. Plus coming down from a 60 to a 40mph, is there nothing about this in traffic regulations?

As has been said the "regulations" state that the signage must give adequate guidance of the limit. Without a location/Google Streetview/crystal ball it is difficult for anyone to comment but if you think it doesn't give adequate guidance then it would be a potential defence as, without streetlighting, the limit would otherwise be 60mph.

However, a single faded sign is unlikely to be fatal to an entire length of speed limit.
andy_foster
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Tue, 23 May 2017 - 22:01) *
without streetlighting, the limit would otherwise be 60mph.


If your aunt had a *****, she'd be your uncle.
nigelbb
QUOTE (bathroomsoflondon @ Tue, 23 May 2017 - 21:49) *
Thank you for all your responses. I find it strange that the signage for the speed limit going the other direction is pristine yet when travelling in the other direction, the signage is seriously faded. Seems a bit odd.

Perhaps the road runs north-south & the faded signs face south & the pristine signs face north?
bathroomsoflondon
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4175986,0...3312!8i6656

the signs are in a much poorer state than what this would lead you to believe though

yes, faded signs are facing south west.
The Rookie
Is the guidance adequate?

Noting the above that if you couldn't see a sign to the alternative then as there is street lighting the limit would be a 30.

As there is a system of street lighting then the lack of signage cannot be a defence, however it may constitute special reasons not to endorse which I think you would really struggle with.
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