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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
David Lightfoot
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - March 2017
Date of the NIP: - 12 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 14 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A55, Conwy tunnel roadworks, (first letter only said latitude-longitude numbered location)
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Second
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I drive through these roadworks everyday, twice a day and same location 728 times a year. I do not speed through them yet I received a request for drivers details through the post for allegedly exceeding the speed limit 47 in a 40!

However the conditional offer letter hasn't stated the speed just I can accept a fine with three points or contest it in court. This time it had a location where as first letter was just latitude and longitude location which made no sense to me at all.

The morning in question I was driving the van, but the times stated don't make sense, at 6.44 am caught speeding and I drove to the paper depot, unloaded the van, parked it up and got home by 7.22 in my car and we are talking 20 mile journey here. I have used the road every day since too, and can see two 50 mph signs next to the 40mph signs but as I'm driving I can't take a photo of them. Even with Irish trucks sitting on my bumper I still do not speed event though they flash lights etc at me

I remember sending a text from a layby also at 6.44 which shows on my phone bill and leaving the road to obtain fuel at Tesco but the time does show on my bank statement only the date and amount of fuel

I now have 28 days to respond to the offer!

Last time I was offered a speeding course and I wasn't even in the country when offence took place and my passport was stamped to prove it I was in mid air in flight! I sat the course as got nowhere with police! Any advice on what to do next?


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Wales

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 01 Apr 2017 12:11:27 +0000
Jlc
With the other case when you were on a flight I presume you named yourself as the driver?

So for this case what did you do with the original location of the NIP as they have reissued? (Seemingly in time)

So you have a conditional offer so, again, one presumes you have named yourself as driving.

This makes things difficult as you should have asked for a photo to assist. But you won't get that now.

Having said that it was still more likely you were exceeding the limit, I would hazard a guess thinking it was a 50 section.

Given the history here I was wondering about plate misreads or someone else with your plate ('clone') but you don't seem to deny being there? (Well it appears you've confirmed you were)

In terms of what you do next it is either accept the fixed penalty or the matter will go to court. You probably won't want that unless you have something as a defence. (As it appears you've confirmed driving then it's either to challenge the alleged speed or the signage/traffic order)
David Lightfoot
I was driving the van on the day with out question but the time scale involved doesn't make any sense, 6.44 am I was sending a text message off my phone and this is on my phone bill, and on the same day I also pulled off the road works to fill the van with fuel at Tesco as a diversion was in place closing the the actual tinnels, this transaction again shows on my statement but not a time on it.

I know everyone says the same thing I wasn't speeding but I certainly wasn't, I deliver newspapers every morning and drive through this location twice a day there and back so know the road works are taking place.

On the most recent drive through here after confirming i was driving there are two 50 mph signs and the a 40 mph sign so again very confused!


Is it worth taking my chance in court?

The last time as stated I got a driving course I was abroad and didn't even own that car or indeed driven it and still somehow I was named as he driver! Very ****** off with that one
Jlc
QUOTE (David Lightfoot @ Mon, 3 Apr 2017 - 12:15) *
On the most recent drive through here after confirming i was driving there are two 50 mph signs and the a 40 mph sign so again very confused!

Is it worth taking my chance in court?

'Chance' is potentially an expensive decision (prosecutions costs come into play going to trial). Without a defence, and 'I don't believe I was speeding' isn't, then it would be hard to recommend such a 'chance'.

It was more likely you were doing 50 in the 40 - but you are on the back foot at the moment as you don't seem to have anything to make an informed decision on.

You don't seemed to have answered the other questions. You could try calling them and explaining you believe you were in the 50 section - they may shed some light but may not want to prejudice any potential court case.

Don't assume any of the times are 100% synchronised.

QUOTE (David Lightfoot @ Mon, 3 Apr 2017 - 12:15) *
The last time as stated I got a driving course I was abroad and didn't even own that car or indeed driven it and still somehow I was named as he driver! Very ****** off with that one

...but you must have admitted to driving yourself (i.e. returned the s172 nomination yourself). But that's obviously irrelevant here.
southpaw82
QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 3 Apr 2017 - 12:36) *
QUOTE (David Lightfoot @ Mon, 3 Apr 2017 - 12:15) *
The last time as stated I got a driving course I was abroad and didn't even own that car or indeed driven it and still somehow I was named as he driver! Very ****** off with that one

...but you must have admitted to driving yourself (i.e. returned the s172 nomination yourself). But that's obviously irrelevant here.

The OP probably doesn't want to put himself at risk of confessing to perjury on a public forum, so let's not go there.
David Lightfoot
Perjury? For what?

As I stated I explained to the speeding go safe people I was on a flight and even sent them ticket and passport as confirmation. Bemused is an understatement, hindsight I would of been better going to court on that occasion, they may of seen my case as bizarrely I as did and got somewhere! Even when I went on the course the person in charge told me to leave when I explained it to him, as like he said they should of gone back to owner of the car for clarification on driver

I don't believe I was speeding on this occasion, I will try giving Them a call tomorrow for clarification of exact location and ask for their evidence from the average speed cameras
Jlc
Let's leave the old offence as SP notes - it doesn't make any difference here. (I wasn't trying to setup a trap)

QUOTE (David Lightfoot @ Mon, 3 Apr 2017 - 15:49) *
I don't believe I was speeding on this occasion, I will try giving Them a call tomorrow for clarification of exact location and ask for their evidence from the average speed cameras

As I said 'not believing' is not a defence. Give them a call but they don't have to give you any 'evidence' at this stage. More a 'bemused' call is the way to go, basically that you believe you were in the 50 section.
southpaw82
QUOTE (David Lightfoot @ Mon, 3 Apr 2017 - 15:49) *
Perjury? For what?

If (and I don't want to know) you filled in a s 172 notice naming yourself when it wasn't you (which is what normally happens before you get offered a course) and you knew it wasn't you that would be an offence of perjury.
NewJudge
I don't know what's more bizarre about your earlier experience - the fact that your name and details were seemingly plucked from thin air leading to the offer of a course or that you accepted the offer and turned up! cool.gif
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